# Getting Offended on Behalf of Other People (Redskins) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167 "2016-05-19T15:41:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/181 "2016-05-23T18:50:19Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I’m curious what your point is. You don’t seem to be discussing the morality of the name, the legality of the trademark dispute, or the underlying rationales for anything. It seems you’re just saying “Nyaahhh Nyahhh, it’s not going to change”. Not precisely. I’m pointing out that one else in this discussion is doing anything but complaining about the situation without having the slightest idea what real-world events are necessary to change it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/182 "2016-05-23T19:02:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m pointing out that one else [\*\*? “no one else”? \*\* — _editorial insertion by **Kimstu** _] in this discussion is doing anything but complaining about the situation without having the slightest idea what real-world events are necessary to change it. :dubious: Ahem. Did you happen to miss my above post where I opined on this very topic of what real-world events I consider likely to precipitate the name change at some point in the future? ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/183 "2016-05-23T19:10:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So, in the face of all this opposition, team owner Dan Synder says, in effect: “Screw off. It’s my team. See? ‘Property of Dan Synder,’ written right here. I’m not changing the name. I refuse to listen to your chiding. My team, my rules. Whatcha gonna do about it?” Honestly, there’s not much anyone can do about it unless and until the NFL gets involved. And that doesn’t seem to be happening anytime soon. Otherwise it would take a massively coordinated effort to boycott the team and their sponsors enough to get Snyder’s attention. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/184 "2016-05-23T20:15:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not precisely. I’m pointing out that one else in this discussion is doing anything but complaining about the situation without having the slightest idea what real-world events are necessary to change it. We’re all just people talking on the internet. Is there some significance to pointing out that no one is doing anything about something? This isn’t an activism forum; this is a discussion board. It just seems like a passive-aggressive way of suggesting that if you’re not doing “doing something” then your opinion on the issue is not of value. Besides a passive-aggressive swipe, it’s also a fallacy. Having opinions about things is perfectly valid, even if it’s a thing that isn’t among your top priorities to commit personal time and effort to. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/185 "2016-05-23T20:28:29Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Otherwise it would take a massively coordinated effort to boycott the team and their sponsors enough to get Snyder’s attention. It’s this. It’s all about the benjamins. Very interesting article in the Washington Post this weekend. Not mind boggling, just interesting. It said that after the President questioned the name, the NFL waited to see if sponsors would take up the cause. If they did, Dan would have been pressured to changed the name. If they didn’t (and they didn’t) the other NFL owners wouldn’t care and they’d be no pressure to change the name. I think we forget just how many human rights issues (if you view this as one) falter due to apathy or indifference. Enough people don’t care enough on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/186 "2016-05-23T21:15:40Z")
You’d think if ESPN got behind something, it would grow some legs and take off. They’ve railed against Snyder and the Redskins name for a while now. But I guess for them, too, it’s put your money where your mouth is. Refuse to discuss the team or show their highlights or put them on MNF. I don’t even know how effective that would be. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/187 "2016-05-23T21:41:02Z")
I don’t think it’s about that, it’s about sponsors. Budweiser, Miller, Hotel chains, food products. Those are the types that would have to say, “we aren’t advertising during NFL games until this name is changed.” Until that happens, Hail to the Redskins. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/188 "2016-05-23T21:42:33Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I don’t think it’s about that, it’s about sponsors. Budweiser, Miller, Hotel chains, food products. Those are the types that would have to say, “we aren’t advertising during NFL games until this name is changed.” > > Until that happens, Hail to the Redskins. I think there’s a very big backlash against political correctness and attacks on the majority culture brewing. The Redskins are here to stay, especially given this new poll. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/189 "2016-05-23T22:31:33Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :dubious: Ahem. Did you happen to miss my above post where I opined on this very topic of what real-world events I consider likely to precipitate the name change at some point in the future? The one in which you said at “some future point” it would happen after new owners came into the picture? So … the actions people should take are: wait? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/190 "2016-05-23T22:32:35Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > We’re all just people talking on the internet. Is there some significance to pointing out that no one is doing anything about something? This isn’t an activism forum; this is a discussion board. It just seems like a passive-aggressive way of suggesting that if you’re not doing “doing something” then your opinion on the issue is not of value. Besides a passive-aggressive swipe, it’s also a fallacy. Having opinions about things is perfectly valid, even if it’s a thing that isn’t among your top priorities to commit personal time and effort to. If that’s so, then I also have an opinion, and I shared it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/191 "2016-05-23T22:35:31Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > It’s this. It’s all about the benjamins. Very interesting article in the Washington Post this weekend. Not mind boggling, just interesting. It said that after the President questioned the name, the NFL waited to see if sponsors would take up the cause. If they did, Dan would have been pressured to changed the name. If they didn’t (and they didn’t) the other NFL owners wouldn’t care and they’d be no pressure to change the name. > > I think we forget just how many human rights issues (if you view this as one) falter due to apathy or indifference. > > Enough people don’t care enough on this one. Exactly. The poll simply highlights the massive disconnect between the semi-professional offenderati and the people that are supposed to be offended, and largely reveals the inchoate frustration on the part of the intellectual leaders that the people aren’t smart enough to know when to be offended, and not compliant enough to follow the lead of their betters and GET offended. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/192 "2016-05-23T22:39:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The one in which you said at “some future point” it would happen after new owners came into the picture? Yup, that one. [QUOTE=Bricker] So … the actions people should take are: wait? [/QUOTE] :dubious: People **should** take whatever actions their conscience dictates. All I’m predicting is that those actions are extremely unlikely to change Snyder’s mind, and that the name change will happen after he’s no longer the owner of the team. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/193 "2016-05-23T22:46:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The poll simply highlights the massive disconnect between the semi-professional offenderati and the people that are supposed to be offended That’s a cozy little hypothesis for people who like to think of themselves as too sophisticated and levelheaded for all this “PC nonsense”, but it is [open to question](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/redskins-poll-is-really-about-a-new-nfl-stadium-2016-05-20). > [@](#): > > Despite taking precautions to include homes with both mobile phones and land lines and to include respondents living both on reservations and off, the poll still relies heavily on the person on the other end’s identification as Native American. > > That question of identity has been a matter of debate for, among others, the Center for Indigenous Peoples Studies at California State University. After finding the Annenberg survey problematic because it relied on respondents to identify as Native American, the center conducted its own survey and found that 67% of those surveyed believe that the Washington team’s name is a racist word. It’s also become an issue for the numerous tribes and Native American activist groups that have jointly denounced the team’s name and mascot. > > However, the Post seems to have a bigger plan in mind for its poll than simply addressing a name or mascot. […] The team now wants a divided Supreme Court to hear its case and could use all the political goodwill it can muster to make that happen. > > Meanwhile, Snyder and company have made no secret about the fact that they want a new stadium to replace 19-year-old FedEx Field in Landover, Md. A Danish architect already designed a new stadium with a moat that could be built at sites in Prince George’s County, Maryland; Loudoun County, Virginia; or D.C. itself. However, D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser has already made it known that she considers the team name offensive, but has wavered slightly on that stance in an effort to woo the team. > > Without Snyder or his organization even opening their mouths, the Post posited that “Native Americans’ indifference” (in a poll of self-identified Native Americans that the paper itself conducted, mind you) “could reset D.C. stadium talks.” It even goes so far as to point out the fact that she “has more often said ‘many’ consider the term offensive” and that she “has also occasionally — perhaps out of habit — still uttered it.” > > That’s where this absolutely stops being about names and mascots and starts being about what polls are often about: political campaigning. […] > > No, there isn’t consensus on whether the name and mascot are offensive. No, there isn’t even a 90% consensus among the self-defined Native Americans the Post interviewed on the subject. But when one side is arguing about the harm caused by the name and the centuries of degradation behind it, and the other side argues that it isn’t bad enough to prevent from cashing in on a trademark or building a new stadium — likely with taxpayer dollars — there’s a divide that poll numbers can’t see and won’t be able to measure. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/194 "2016-05-23T23:00:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The poll simply highlights the massive disconnect between the semi-professional offenderati The use of the term “offenderati” really says all that anyone needs to know about your view on this. But beyond that, as someone who is not Native American, I am perfectly justified in thinking the name “Redskins” is racist garbage, regardless of what Native Americans think. And if 9 percent of Native Americans agree with me, then I don’t think that proves me wrong. Surely, the Native Americans who are actively trying to get the name changed are among that 9 percent. Or do you think they’re pretending? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/195 "2016-05-23T23:11:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The one in which you said at “some future point” it would happen after new owners came into the picture? > > So … the actions people should take are: wait? Why so dismissive? You’ve pointed out that there’s very little legal recourse for forcing a name change. So, for people who think the name should change, what else should they be doing, but talking about why the name is a problem, and waiting until there’s enough popular support for their views for it to start mattering to people who _are_ in a position to force a change? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/196 "2016-05-23T23:21:46Z")
I don’t really think there should be sports teams named after ethnic groups at all (at least not extant ethnic groups). “Jews” is not a slur, but I would think most Americans would find it highly inappropriate to name a professional football team “The Jews”. Why is “The Indians” more acceptable? I suppose only because of the tradition of treating Native Americans as a sort of archetypal character (and stereotype). That strikes me as discrimination, and “it’s tradition” is a poor reason to keep on discriminating. I also don’t think I believe that this is a matter of “getting offended on behalf of other people”. I’m not reading some private correspondence between the team and the Native American groups here, I’m reacting to the image the team shows to me. If, say, one of my co-workers used the N-word in conversation with me, I’d find that offensive too, even though I’m not Black. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/197 "2016-05-23T23:32:31Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The use of the term “offenderati” really says all that anyone needs to know about your view on this. > > But beyond that, as someone who is not Native American, I am perfectly justified in thinking the name “Redskins” is racist garbage, regardless of what Native Americans think. And if 9 percent of Native Americans agree with me, then I don’t think that proves me wrong. Surely, the Native Americans who are actively trying to get the name changed are among that 9 percent. Or do you think they’re pretending? You are perfectly justified to think what you please. The question is: do you, and your compatriots, have any kind of way to enforce your opinion on to the real world? In other words, you, and nine percent of Native Americans, think it’s horrible. But others don’t care, including Dan Snyder. There, the story ends. Now, you guys made an effort to kill Dan’s federal trademark. That might have been useful, because it would have robbed him of easy ways to enforce his intellectual property rights – but that failed. So I don’t doubt your sincerity – I contend it’s impotent. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/198 "2016-05-23T23:36:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Why so dismissive? You’ve pointed out that there’s very little legal recourse for forcing a name change. So, for people who think the name should change, what else should they be doing, but talking about why the name is a problem, and waiting until there’s enough popular support for their views for it to start mattering to people who _are_ in a position to force a change? Because the notion that their offense should mandate a name change offends me. Luckily, my offended response is that it shouldn’t mandate a name change, and, sure enough, it won’t, so my offended response is immediately soothed by the palliative intrusion of reality. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/199 "2016-05-23T23:38:20Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > I don’t really think there should be sports teams named after ethnic groups at all (at least not extant ethnic groups). “Jews” is not a slur, but I would think most Americans would find it highly inappropriate to name a professional football team “The Jews”. Why is “The Indians” more acceptable? I suppose only because of the tradition of treating Native Americans as a sort of archetypal character (and stereotype). That strikes me as discrimination, and “it’s tradition” is a poor reason to keep on discriminating. > > I also don’t think I believe that this is a matter of “getting offended on behalf of other people”. I’m not reading some private correspondence between the team and the Native American groups here, I’m reacting to the image the team shows to me. If, say, one of my co-workers used the N-word in conversation with me, I’d find that offensive too, even though I’m not Black. You don’t have a right to a society that avoids directing offensive ideas at you. Nor is that expectation reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/200 "2016-05-23T23:40:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You don’t have a right to a society that avoids directing offensive ideas at you. Nor is that expectation reasonable. Are you suggesting that social change has never happened? Or never should happen? Or never should have happened? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167.md?page=11)