# Getting Offended on Behalf of Other People (Redskins) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167 "2016-05-19T15:41:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/21 "2016-05-19T17:34:54Z")
Just because not many people are offended doesn’t change the fact that it’s s stupid name, and no one with any sense would name a team that today. Since name changes aren’t that unusual, pick something that relates more to DC. Here are a few: The Washington Insiders The Washington Lobbyists The K Street Gang The Washington Congresscritters Any of those would be preferable to “Redskins”. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/22 "2016-05-19T17:40:53Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I don’t know why people love to pretend to be Indian, but they do. It’s somehow more exciting. Just an anecdote, but I worked with a woman who claimed to be part Cherokee (it’s always Cherokee, it seems like) and used it to qualify for NA-based grants. Another co-worker, who did have some Cherokee background, once told me the first woman didn’t know what the Trail of Tears was. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/23 "2016-05-19T17:46:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Just because not many people are offended doesn’t change the fact that it’s s stupid name, and no one with any sense would name a team that today. Since name changes aren’t that unusual, pick something that relates more to DC. Here are a few: > > The Washington Insiders > The Washington Lobbyists > The K Street Gang > The Washington Congresscritters > > Any of those would be preferable to “Redskins”. I like “Washington Warriors”, and replacing the NA dude’s head logo with a tomahawk. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/24 "2016-05-19T17:56:23Z")
Keep the name, change the mascot to a redskin potato. Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/25 "2016-05-19T18:12:38Z")
Interesting to see some here trying to find a way to discredit the poll or say the results really don’t matter. My guess is that the very same people would say how valuable and impressive the poll was, and how important the results were if it found that 90% of Native Americans _were_ offended by the name. The Post if very left leaning and liberal. If it could have proved that the name was offensive, it would have. Outside of this debate, I’ve never head that the name “Redskins” was offensive. When I learned that it is used as a mascot by some sports teams on Reservations I was very certain that it wasn’t a big deal. Now learning that only 9% find it offensive, it’s a done deal for me. If I took a poll, more than 9% of people would be found to be offended by the Easter bunny, Santa Clause and a guy handing out free gold bars. A solution is search of a problem if ever there was one. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/26 "2016-05-19T18:16:09Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I don’t know why people love to pretend to be Indian, but they do. It’s somehow more exciting. > > I’m not saying that I know for a fact that their data is flawed, but their hit rate seems very, very high for any reasonably sized survey. Without that size, it’s impossible to know what their hit rate was. To quote a god of a man “People lie”. -Greg House 504 people (self-identified) out out a few million saying it’s ok is considered the end all be all? My Band (which is more than 500 people) says it’s offensive: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlk6PUgA\_2g&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlk6PUgA_2g&feature=youtu.be) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/27 "2016-05-19T18:22:55Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > “Native Americans are resilient and have not allowed the NFL’s decades-long denigration of us to define our own self-image,” wrote Oneida Nation Representative Which represents 20,000 natives out of 5,400,000.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/28 "2016-05-19T18:26:54Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Interesting to see some here trying to find a way to discredit the poll or say the results really don’t matter. It’s not challenging to discredit. Unless they show that they surveyed 50,000 people, then they absolutely no doubt about it surveyed a bunch of Native Americans who are not Native American. It’s not an opinion. It’s math. Polls of active enrolled tribal members show very different results. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/29 "2016-05-19T18:37:21Z")
So my local school district has been the redskins since 1898. Decades before any sort of racial sensitivity. Majority feel it’s not offensive. Me too though I recognize it’s hardly honorable and would not be chosen today. I suggested they change it to the rednecks as that more accurately portrays the the reputation of the townspeople here. Turns out that was found too offensive to consider. I do like the icon of the warrior profile in war bonnet that is s carved in stone and on district merch. But the redskin name should be changed imho. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/30 "2016-05-19T18:38:54Z")
> [@chela](#): > > I suggested they change it to the rednecks as that more accurately portrays the the reputation of the townspeople here. Turns out that was found too offensive to consider. Now THAT is how you do it! Good show. It would be especially appropriate in Washington, given the team’s history. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/31 "2016-05-19T18:43:06Z")
Who cares if some percentage of the people being disparaged don’t find it offensive? That’s not the point, the point is that it IS offensive. I’m sure many minors might not be against having sex with adults, it’s still illegal. Because it’s wrong not because of their opinion. The same with many jurisdictions and domestic violence cases, you can’t always allow victims to make the decisions. And, yes, I know my examples are not exactly equivalent, and I’m not saying native Americans should be treated like children or battery victims. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/32 "2016-05-19T18:46:58Z")
I remember when the NBA’s Washington Bullets were changing their name. The old one brought about too much imagery of violence, evil, deadly destruction and so on … … I guess the Arlington Bullets didn’t catch on … ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/33 "2016-05-19T18:51:45Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > It’s not challenging to discredit. Unless they show that they surveyed 50,000 people, then they absolutely no doubt about it surveyed a bunch of Native Americans who are not Native American. It’s not an opinion. It’s math. So any any survey group of less than 50,000 by definition can not contain Native Americans, and this is a mathematical certainty?? > [@G0sp3l](#): > > And, yes, I know my examples are not exactly equivalent . . Hard to argue with that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/34 "2016-05-19T19:36:37Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I don’t know why people love to pretend to be Indian, but they do. It’s somehow more exciting. > . I think “pretend to be Indian” is a little insulting. Many people have 1/4 or even rarely 1/2 native heritage, but their tribe is restrictive. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/35 "2016-05-19T19:38:41Z")
> [@mistymage](#): > > To quote a god of a man “People lie”. -Greg House > > 504 people (self-identified) out out a few million saying it’s ok is considered the end all be all? My Band (which is more than 500 people) says it’s offensive: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlk6PUgA\_2g&feature=youtu.be](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlk6PUgA_2g&feature=youtu.be) The difference is the way their sample was chosen. The Post has alot of experience with polls and they should be able to get a representative sample. If their numbers are accurate than around 500,000 Indians find the name offensive. It should not be hard to find 500 who have that opinion. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/36 "2016-05-19T19:45:26Z")
> [@mistymage](#): > > My Band (which is more than 500 people) says it’s offensive: I think this is worthy of more study - is there a big difference within the Indian community by band or tribe? Do certain bands or tribes find the word offensive when others don’t? And why? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/37 "2016-05-19T19:58:20Z")
> [@G0sp3l](#): > > Who cares if some percentage of the people being disparaged don’t find it offensive? That’s not the point, the point is that it IS offensive. > > I’m sure many minors might not be against having sex with adults, it’s still illegal. Because it’s wrong not because of their opinion. The same with many jurisdictions and domestic violence cases, you can’t always allow victims to make the decisions. > > And, yes, I know my examples are not exactly equivalent, and I’m not saying native Americans should be treated like children or battery victims. Wow, there’s a lot to unpack from this post. A couple of questions: 1. Who determines what is offensive? Any member of the disparaged party, or does it require some percentage. If only one Native American out of 3 million considered a logo offensive, and the rest didn’t, would it still be offensive? It would seem to me that criteria similar to the SCOTUS obscenity criteria could be used here: _the average person_. What % of Native Americans is considered average? 2. Are you really trying to compare offensive naming to sex with minors? Seriously? Not exactly equivalent, well how are they equivalent in any sense? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/38 "2016-05-19T20:07:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > ome. I think they should change it (voluntarily, not by government action) Just to be clear, I don’t know of any government action to force the team to change its name. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > 1. Who determines what is offensive? Any member of the disparaged party, or does it require some percentage. If only one Native American out of 3 million considered a logo offensive, and the rest didn’t, would it still be offensive? If we are talking only in terms of the federal trademark law’s prohibition on registration of disparaging terms, the standard is a “substantial component” of the group in question. So, it doesn’t have to be a majority. 30 percent has been found to be substantial in the past. I would guess that 10 percent would also be found substantial. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/39 "2016-05-19T20:08:49Z")
We have the same thing going on here in Houston. The brain-dead morons that currently compromise the Houston Independent School District Board have decided that we need to waste buckets of taxpayer dollars renaming schools that were named after Confederates, simply so that no one might possibly be offended. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/40 "2016-05-19T20:13:58Z")
The OP is conflating “being offended” with “rejecting as inappropriate”. Which is not surprising, as the two concepts are closely linked, but they’re not the same thing. The term “redskin” for American Indians/Native Americans is currently regarded as an ethnic slur. The fact that it was historically considered acceptable, and that it has a history as a well-known team name, and even that many of the people it references don’t feel personally offended by it, doesn’t change the fact that it’s inappropriate to use an ethnic slur as an official sports team name. Similarly, the Frisco (TX) team “Fighting Coons” changed their name in 2002 to the full-version form “Fighting **Rac** coons”. (“Coon Memorial Stadium” was renamed to “FISD Memorial Stadium”.) The Pekin (IL) “Chinks” teams have changed their name to “Dragons”. And so on. \*\*AFAICT, such changes typically came about not because of any massive uproar of offendedness on the part of people referenced by the slur, but because of objections calmly articulated by management/fans/parents/etc. without angry controversy. \*\* And that’s where we are in the “Redskins-name” debate now, AFAICT. We shouldn’t need angry outrage and pickets and rioting on the part of tribal groups to calmly and rationally acknowledge that ethnic slurs are inappropriate as sports teams names in this day and age. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167.md?page=3)