# Getting Offended on Behalf of Other People (Redskins) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167 "2016-05-19T15:41:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/61 "2016-05-19T22:28:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You find it hard to believe that one of the biggest polling companies in America pools a mere 10000 Americans _a month_? That’s peanuts. Great. Then if the numbers add up, they should probably show them. It’s a single number. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Which post? [http://cips.csusb.edu/docs/PressRelease.pdf](http://cips.csusb.edu/docs/PressRelease.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/62 "2016-05-19T22:33:55Z")
Washington Political Corrections ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/63 "2016-05-19T22:34:14Z")
It doesn’t matter how many Native Americans find the term offensive, it’s offensive if enough people find it offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/64 "2016-05-19T22:36:35Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Even your various dictionary entries seem to acknowledge this, in saying things like “_usually_ offensive” which would indicate that it’s not _always_ offensive. For the record, Merriam-Webster lists “nigger” as “usually offensive.” It also lists “motherfucker” as “usually obscene.” I wouldn’t read a whole lot into that “usually.” ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/65 "2016-05-19T22:37:19Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > No, that’s not what I said. What I said is that any survey group of fewer than 50,000 randomly sampled Americans can not contain 504 Native Americans. Do I need to walk through it again? Actually that is exactly what you said. Nice effort to move the goal post though. You should have read the article before you posted. That is a huge, well respected polling firm and the Washington Post is a a huge, well respected newspaper. Ask to see their homework all you’d like. Bottom line is their polling data is almost certainly correct, and the article is as well. As I stated, I read the Post every day here, and the skewer the Redskins all the time over their name and they would have liked nothing more than to see the figures reversed. Enjoyable show watching all the spinning going on here though. I keep coming back the same point others make. It’s inconceivable, to have a predominately black school have their mascot be the Ridell High Negros - or worse. Just never going to happen. And yet there are Reservations with the Redskin mascot. I just can’t understand if it’s that offensive, to even 9% of Native Americans, how that could be. So I’m left thinking it’s not all that offensive to people - unless they’re looking for something to get fired up over. > [@TriPolar](#): > > It doesn’t matter how many Native Americans find the term offensive, it’s offensive if enough people find it offensive. The question is how many, and how offensive does it have to be? Vikings? Cowboys? 3 million people offended? 300,000? 300? 3? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/66 "2016-05-19T22:38:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > For the record, Merriam-Webster lists “nigger” as “usually offensive.” > > It also lists “motherfucker” as “usually obscene.” > > I wouldn’t read a whole lot into that “usually.” OK, I retract that. Still it’s at least _consistent_ with what I’m saying, if not an indication for it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/67 "2016-05-19T22:40:08Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Great. Then if the numbers add up, they should probably show them. It’s a single number. > > [Center for Indigenous Peoples Studies | CSUSB](http://cips.csusb.edu/docs/PressRelease.pdf) You mean this line? \*The survey was conducted based on similar work done on the Cleveland Indians Chief Wahoo mascot, when analysts found mainstream research agendas systematically mis-identified Native Americans to benefit dominant ideologies that American Indians supported the mascot and team name. \* which has\* no data\*? And, like i said 44% of those surveyed belonged to a recognized tribe. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/68 "2016-05-19T22:42:11Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Actually that is exactly what you said. Nice effort to move the goal post though. Here is exactly what I said copied and pasted, and it is mathematically undeniable, and exactly what I’m still saying: > [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The math seems challenging here. They found about 500 Native Americans to ask this question. Native Americans are less than 1% of the population, so to randomly get 500 to ask this question, they would have to have randomly polled over 50,000 people. I can’t find anywhere that they say how many people were ultimately surveyed to get to these 504. > > My guess is that they didn’t poll nearly that many people, but that they got a much higher hit rate than the predicted 1% because a lot of people who identify themselves as Native American are full of shit. If you’re survey pulls out 500 people that consist of 1% of the population, then your survey had to have 50000 people in it. If you have a way to dispute this, then you’ve invented some new form of mathematics. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/69 "2016-05-19T22:45:36Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [snip] … Even your various dictionary entries seem to acknowledge this, in saying things like “_usually_ offensive” which would indicate that it’s not _always_ offensive. It’s patently offensive … the average person would think the word is offensive in a company’s brand name or advertising. Safest example I can think of is the “cave man” commercials Gieko ran some years ago. I think the problem is that when a white person goes up to a NA and asks, the NA is just going to shake his head and not even try … “Nah, it’s okay I don’t mind” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/70 "2016-05-19T22:56:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And, like i said 44% of those surveyed belonged to a recognized tribe. And, like I said, 44% surveyed _claimed_ to belong to a recognized tribe. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/71 "2016-05-19T22:58:50Z")
My own view is that I don’t really care if other people are offended. As long as they don’t try to turn that feeling of offense into an effort to strip trademark registration away from the team, they are welcome to be as offended as they wish. But a trademark can be offensive and disparaging, because we have a First Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/72 "2016-05-19T23:08:17Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But a trademark can be offensive and disparaging, because we have a First Amendment. It seems to me that whether a trademark can be offensive and disparaging and whether an offensive and disparaging trademark can be registered aren’t the same issue, but I suppose we are likely to find out soon enough whether that’s the case. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/73 "2016-05-19T23:18:47Z")
Oh, just never mind. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/74 "2016-05-19T23:27:38Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > The question is how many, and how offensive does it have to be? Vikings? Cowboys? 3 million people offended? 300,000? 300? 3? Just one if it’s me. Other than that I don’t know, but I think the number of offended people is growing as offense is contagious. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/75 "2016-05-19T23:28:52Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Wow, there’s a lot to unpack from this post. > > A couple of questions: > > 1. Who determines what is offensive? Any member of the disparaged party, or does it require some percentage. If only one Native American out of 3 million considered a logo offensive, and the rest didn’t, would it still be offensive? It would seem to me that criteria similar to the SCOTUS obscenity criteria could be used here: _the average person_. What % of Native Americans is considered average? > > 2. Are you really trying to compare offensive naming to sex with minors? Seriously? Not exactly equivalent, well how are they equivalent in any sense? One wrong thing (sex with minors) and is considered unacceptable without trying to argue that “oh the kids are okay with it, so what’s the fuss?” The other wrong thing (using a slur as a team name) has a bunch of people arguing that “some Native Americans are okay with it so what’s the fuss?” Ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/76 "2016-05-20T01:02:06Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Just one if it’s me. Other than that I don’t know, but I think the number of offended people is growing as offense is contagious. Or maybe people are just feeling more empowered to speak up about stuff they’ve always been bothered by. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/77 "2016-05-20T01:07:24Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Or maybe people are just feeling more empowered to speak up about stuff they’ve always been bothered by. I’m sure, but I’m also sure there are people who didn’t know that they were offended before. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/78 "2016-05-20T01:54:53Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > And, like I said, 44% surveyed _claimed_ to belong to a recognized tribe. Yeah, I wonder about that number. I suspect the Venn diagrams of “People who think they have some NA blood in them, but don’t,” and “People who understand the legal arcana of tribal affiliation,” have very little overlap. How many people who said they belong to a particular tribe in that poll understand that being a member of, say, the Cherokee, means more than, “My grandma used to say she was a quarter Cherokee!” ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/79 "2016-05-20T01:57:25Z")
so much for white uber-prog “critical race theory” expensive college liberal-arts student types trying to force their far-left agenda on America. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/80 "2016-05-20T02:17:32Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > so much for white uber-prog “critical race theory” expensive college liberal-arts student types trying to force their far-left agenda on America. You sound like a running dog lackey of the imperialist war monger. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167.md?page=5)