# Getting Offended on Behalf of Other People (Redskins) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167 "2016-05-19T15:41:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/81 "2016-05-20T02:41:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yeah, I wonder about that number. I suspect the Venn diagrams of “People who think they have some NA blood in them, but don’t,” and “People who understand the legal arcana of tribal affiliation,” have very little overlap. How many people who said they belong to a particular tribe in that poll understand that being a member of, say, the Cherokee, means more than, “My grandma used to say she was a quarter Cherokee!” Yep. My youngest son is a member of our Band. Once he turns 18… nope. I, myself, don’t actually qualify since sometime just after I was born the Blood Quantum was changed. But, since 6 of my 7 siblings were qualified, I and a younger sibling were Grandfathered in. My sons can always say they are Mille Lacs… they just can’t say they are members of the Band. (And they kind of wish I _had_ married a cousin because then they could enjoy a few benefits, too. At least they got double insurance until the 2 older turned 18.) ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/82 "2016-05-20T02:50:19Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You sound like a running dog lackey of the imperialist war monger. please tell me how? Or who am I being a “lackey” of? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/83 "2016-05-20T02:51:33Z")
Oh for fuck’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/84 "2016-05-20T02:59:46Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > so much for white uber-prog “critical race theory” expensive college liberal-arts student types trying to force their far-left agenda on America. There’s nothing particularly “far-left” about the opinion that ethnic slurs shouldn’t be used as sports team names. But if you think there is, then you must be quite upset at my abovementioned examples of teams like the [Frisco (TX) Coons](http://lubbockonline.com/stories/030502/upd_075-8014.shtml#.Vz50c4dU9Uc) and the [Pekin (IL) Chinks](http://www.ccamuseum.org/index.php/en/research/research-1900-1949/128-1981-the-pekin-chinks-high-school-team-becomes-the-pekin-dragons) having their names changed. (Associated playing venues named, respectively, the Coon Memorial Stadium and the Chink Rink skating facility had their names changed at the same time.) And that’s just the tip of the iceberg for the [widespread success](http://www.changethemascot.org/history-of-progress/) of this particular, er, “far-left agenda”! > [@](#): > > **1970:** April 17 – University of Oklahoma retires its “Little Red” mascot that had been a traditional part of the school’s athletics since the 1940s. […] > > **1971:** Marquette University (WI) abandons its “Willie Wampum” mascot. Prior to the 1994 season the university would also change its “Indian” related “Warriors” nickname to “Golden Eagles.” > > **1972:** A petition by American Indian students at Stanford University results in that school dropping its “Indian” sports team nickname and logos. > > Dickinson State (N.D.) changes from the “Savages” to the “Blue Hawks.” […] > > **1979:** Syracuse University, Syracuse, New York, did away with its “Saltine Warrior” mascot. > > St. Bonaventure, St. Bonaventure, New York, retired its “Brown Indians” and “Brown Squaws” sports team mascots. > > **1980:** Southern Oregon University ends a tradition begun in 1950 when its “Red Raiders” sports teams cease using several depictions of Indian chiefs as mascots and symbolic logos for sporting events. […] > > **1992:** The Portland Oregonian announces it will no longer use the “R-word” [_“Redskins”, in case you were wondering_] and several other American Indian related terms in print. Radio stations WASH and WTOP in Washington, D.C. also adopt similar policies. > > Simpson College, a school affiliated with the United Methodist Church, drops its “Redmen” and “Lady Reds” nickname in favor of “Storm.” The following year the college adopts “Thundercat” as its mascot. > > Despite a lawsuit and more than 2,000 signatures signed in protest, Naperville Central High School (IL) switches its nickname from the “R-word” to the “Redhawks.” > > Grand Forks Central High School (ND) changes its sports teams’ nickname from the “R-word” to “Knights.” […] > > **1994:** […] Prior to the 1994-95 season Marquette University retired its “Warriors” nickname in favor of “Golden Eagles.” > > \*\*1995: \*\* St. John’s, the largest Catholic university in America, drops its “Redmen” nickname in favor of “Redstorm.” […] > > **1997:** […] The Board of Education for the Los Angeles, California consolidated school district moves to eliminate “Indian” related mascots from four schools in its jurisdiction. > > **1998:** […] A federal judge upholds the Los Angeles consolidated school board’s 1997 decision to eliminate several “Indian” related mascots and nicknames from its district. > > Southern Nazarene University, a small Christian school in Bethany, Oklahoma, retires its “R-word” nickname in favor of “Crimson Storm.” […] > > Following a complaint made by the program manager for American Indian Education, 10 public schools in Dallas, Texas, make plans to retire their respective “Indian” mascots by the end of the 1998-99 school year. > > Oklahoma City University, a college affiliated with the United Methodist Church, decides to replace its “Chiefs” nickname dating back to 1944. > > Morningside College of Sioux City, Iowa, changes its nickname from the “Maroon Chiefs” to the Mustangs. > > **1999:** The Great Lakes Inter-Tribal Council, a consortium of twelve federally recognized Indian tribes, issues a resolution calling for the end of “the use of depictions of and cultural references to American Indians as mascots, logos, and team nicknames in Wisconsin public schools.” […] > > A panel in Utah decides that the “R-word” is derogatory term and forbids its use on motor vehicle license plates. > > Citing educational concerns about misinterpretations of the crayon color’s name, Crayola announces plans to change “Indian red” to something less ambiguous. > > A landmark victory concludes a legal battle begun in 1992 as a three-judge panel of the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office rules that the “R-word” is a term disparaging to Native Americans and tends to bring them “into contempt or disrepute.” The decision has the potential to strip the Washington NFL team of trademark protections. […] > > Ten schools in the Dallas, Texas, area follow through on a 1997 decision to change their “Indian” sports team tokens. […] > > **2000:** Hiawatha, Kansas, retires the “R-word” nickname from all schools in its district. > > The Canajoharie school district in New York state retires use of “R-word” nickname. […] > > **2001:** Saranac Lake, New York, retires the “R-word” nickname from all schools in its district. > > Finally taking action on an appeal that was filed five years earlier, the New York State Education Department calls for the retirement of institutionalized “Indian” sports team nicknames, mascots, and logos from its public schools. […] > > In an action that removes all doubt about the seriousness of concerns surrounding the use of “Indian” sports team tokens, The United States Commission on Civil Rights issues a position statement calling for educational institutions to avoid use of such ethnic nicknames and mascots. > > **2002:** […] 34 presidents of the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities Board unanimously adopted a resolution against discriminatory logos, names, mascots and nicknames. […] > > New Hampshire State Board of Education unanimously approved a resolution calling for local school districts to stop using American Indian sports mascots. […] > > **2003:** Joining the ranks of other newspapers that have also adopted similar guidelines the Nebraska Journal Star newspaper amends its style and, along with other related changes, will no long print the “R-word” racial slur. […] > > The Michigan State Board of Education passes a resolution that “supports and strongly recommends the elimination of American Indian mascots, nicknames, logos, fight songs, insignias, antics, and team descriptors by all Michigan schools.” […] > > **2007:** Indiana University of Pennsylvania changed its nickname from the Indians to the Crimson Hawks. […] > > **2013:** In December the Houston Independent School District approved a policy change to ban the use of offensive or culturally insensitive mascots. The ban affects four schools within the district. > > \*\*2014: \*\* In January the U.S. Patent and Trademark office denied a company’s request to sell pork rinds with the name “Redskins” under trademark laws becuase the term is ”a derogatory slang word.” […] > > In early May both houses of the New York State legislature pass a resolution calling upon professional sports leagues to stop using racial slurs, specifically citing the Washington NFL team’s R-word mascot as a dictionary-defined epithet. […] > > June 18 – the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office cancels the trademark for the Washington NFL team. […] > > **July 8, 2015:** A federal judge rules for the cancellation of the trademark of the Washington R\*dskins football team name. > > **Oct. 11, 2015:** Gov. Brown of California signs the California Racial Mascots Act, a law that eliminates the dictionary-defined R-word slur as a mascot from all of the state’s public schools. And that’s just a fraction of similar changes documented at the linked site. Face it, **DerekMichaels00** , the ship has effectively sailed on this issue. The Washington Redskins may not change their name while Snyder owns them, since he seems very determined to make this issue his hill to die on, but they will become more and more of an outlier, and eventually more and more of an embarrassment. If you wouldn’t approve of “Coons” or “Chinks” or “Wops” or “Hymies” or “Micks” or “Spics” as a team name, then there’s nothing at all “far-left” about also considering “Redskins” inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/85 "2016-05-20T03:04:29Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If you wouldn’t approve of “Coons” or “Chinks” or “Wops” or “Hymies” or “Micks” or “Spics” as a team name, then there’s nothing at all “far left” about also considering “Redskins” inappropriate. That’s because those groups actually mind those names. The poll, which was done with standard opinion polling standards, shows the aboriginals don’t mind. There’s also a lot more blacks, Asians, Italians, Jews, Irish, and Hispanics than aboriginals (and I use the term because I’m an American and I’m native born). I’m all for racial/ethnic equality, as in groups all minority groups having the same rights/privileges in law and being subject to the same laws. I’m not for cultural Maoism where we eliminate the majority heritage/symbols tho. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/86 "2016-05-20T03:16:41Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > please tell me how? Or who am I being a “lackey” of? I’m just making fun of the political sloganeering you used. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/87 "2016-05-20T03:46:55Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > We have the same thing going on here in Houston. The brain-dead morons that currently compromise the Houston Independent School District Board have decided that we need to waste buckets of taxpayer dollars renaming schools that were named after Confederates, simply so that no one might possibly be offended. :mad: Nah; that’s because we don’t memorialize traitors to our country with the honor of naming anything after them that is good and worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/88 "2016-05-20T04:02:56Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Outside of this debate, I’ve never head that the name “Redskins” was offensive. When I learned that **it is used as a mascot by some sports teams on Reservations** I was very certain that it wasn’t a big deal. > [@spifflog](#): > > I keep coming back the same point others make. It’s inconceivable, to have a predominately black school have their mascot be the Ridell High Negros - or worse. Just never going to happen. And yet **there are Reservations with the Redskin mascot**. I just can’t understand if it’s that offensive, to even 9% of Native Americans, how that could be. So I’m left thinking it’s not all that offensive to people - unless they’re looking for something to get fired up over. (bolding mine) Like where? How many of these can you show us? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/89 "2016-05-20T04:12:09Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > That’s because those groups actually mind those names. That sounds like a rather vague criterion, especially given that there are plenty of members of each of those groups who **don’t** particularly mind those names. (There are lots of Irish people who’ll call themselves “Micks”, for instance.) So, exactly what percentage of a group do you think has to officially “mind” an ethnic slur before it becomes inappropriate to use that slur for a sports team name? And how should that percentage be officially assessed? Personally, I think it’s a lot more efficient and simpler just to consult contemporary dictionaries and usage guidelines and eliminate all the ethnic-group names that are generally recognized as pejorative or derogatory. **In fact, it’s even simpler and more efficient just to eliminate the use of names of all modern ethnic groups whatsoever from the category of “things to call a sports team”.** [QUOTE=DerekMichaels00] The poll, which was done with standard opinion polling standards, shows the aboriginals don’t mind. [/quote] Actually, what it showed was that 9 out of 10 people who **identify themselves as Native American when asked by a random pollster on the phone about their ethnic identity** don’t mind: > [@](#): > > The poll, which has a 5.5 percentage-point margin of sampling error, was conducted by randomly calling cellular and landline phones. It asked questions only of people who identified themselves as Native American, after being asked about their ethnicity or heritage. [QUOTE=DerekMichaels00] There’s also a lot more blacks, Asians, Italians, Jews, Irish, and Hispanics than aboriginals (and I use the term because I’m an American and I’m native born). [/quote] That’s not actually how acceptability of ethnic-group identifiers is determined. However, if you genuinely find it difficult to distinguish between the concepts or nomenclature of American Indians/Native Americans and that of native-born American citizens of other ethnicities, far be it from me to attempt to dissuade you from relying on alternative nomenclature that will make such a herculean task a little easier for you. However, I can’t give you a pass on the ignorance of believing that there are “a lot more” Jews than Native Americans in the US. There are actually something over 5 million of each of them at present. Moreover, the population of Asian-Americans (including South Asians) is only approximately three times as big at around 17 million, while Italian-Americans are actually less numerous than Asian-Americans, at around 15 million. The groups in your list that do actually count as “a lot more” than Native Americans are Irish-Americans at about 34 million and Hispanic Americans at about 54 million. Which, according to your “logic”, would make it just fine to name a sports team, for instance, the “Yids”, as long as some undetermined minimum percentage of people claiming to be Jewish in a telephone poll professed “not to mind”. :dubious: [QUOTE=DerekMichaels00] I’m all for racial/ethnic equality, as in groups all minority groups having the same rights/privileges in law and being subject to the same laws. I’m not for cultural Maoism where we eliminate the majority heritage/symbols tho. [/QUOTE] Using stereotyped cartoon images and derogatory nicknames for ethnic minorities as commercial marketing logos for professional sports franchises doesn’t really count as a “heritage”. Especially given that such ethnic-nickname team names are mostly a creation of the twentieth century. The “Red Stockings”, the “Doves” (the original name of the “Braves”), the “Tigers”, the “Angels”, the “Bridegrooms” (the original name of the “Dodgers”), the “Brewers”, the “Orioles”, the “Athletics”, the “Philadelphias” (now “Phillies”) and the “Giants”, among others, all go back farther than the “Indian-themed” nicknames of various teams. And of course, all those baseball names are decades older than the names of the various johnny-come-lately organizations belonging to the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/90 "2016-05-20T04:27:28Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > However, I can’t give you a pass on the ignorance of believing that there are “a lot more” Jews than Native Americans in the US. There are actually something over 5 million of each of them at present. Actually, half of the figure you give are native American who are not people that are like 80% white, 15% mulatto, and a few percent Cherokee/Hopi, whatever. Also, Jews are winners who have sought and have played a prominent role in American life. Not to mention, even for as loud as ADL can be at times, fact is there are still Jewish characters in culture/TV that aren’t flattering (think Ken Rosenberg in GTA or Lionel Hutz in Simpsons) that most Jewish people don’t really mind or get all SJW over. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/91 "2016-05-20T04:41:42Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Actually, half of the figure you give are native American who are not people that are like 80% white, 15% mulatto, and a few percent Cherokee/Hopi, whatever. This garbled sentence is extremely unclear, but I’m guessing that what you’re trying to argue is that there aren’t “really” approximately as many Native Americans as Jews in the US, on the grounds that most Native Americans have some mixed heritage and therefore “shouldn’t count”? In which case, your previous argument about the majority of (self-identified) Native Americans “not minding” the Redskins team name completely collapses. Because, since the pollsters didn’t check the respondents’ actual genetic heritage, we have no way of knowing how many, or which ones, were “real” Native Americans according to your rather odd criteria. [QUOTE=DerekMichaels00] Also, Jews are winners who have sought and have played a prominent role in American life. [/quote] :dubious: :dubious: :dubious: Your point being, apparently, that Native Americans by contrast are “losers” who are largely marginalized in American life? And therefore are fair game for having stereotypical images and pejorative nicknames of their people appropriated as official commercial symbols for non-Native American sports franchises? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/92 "2016-05-20T05:30:26Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :dubious: :dubious: :dubious: Your point being, apparently, that Native Americans by contrast are “losers” who are largely marginalized in American life? And therefore are fair game for having stereotypical images and pejorative nicknames of their people appropriated as official commercial symbols for non-Native American sports franchises? > > Wow. I think that is it in a nutshell. But we are trying to adjust that… at least after a decade or so of a court battle my tribe had to engage in (and won). I’m sure we’ll have to fight and fight and fight… un/fortunately most of us are not rioting types. So we’ll keep fighting legally. -Hennepin County said we weren’t a Fed Rec’d rez… after a decade or so… we won. Fishing rights? We won. Oil pipe lines from Canada… running through our lands (rice, water, homes) we’re still fighting. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/93 "2016-05-20T11:47:25Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I can say as a white dude, if a team was named the Georgia Crackers or something I would find it very weird, but I wouldn’t be personally offended by it. I would still think that they should change their name, which is a question that curiously the poll didn’t ask. I used to be indifferent to Washington’s name but an ad I saw kind of tipped the balance for me. It showed a bunch of Native Americans engaged in various activities and at the end it said “You wouldn’t _call_ them Redskins, would you?” And, no, I wouldn’t. Not unless I was ready to get my ass kicked. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/94 "2016-05-20T11:57:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I can say as a white dude, if a team was named the Georgia Crackers or something > **[Atlanta Crackers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Crackers)** > > The Atlanta Crackers were Minor League Baseball teams based in Atlanta, Georgia, between 1901 and 1965. The Crackers were Atlanta's home team until the Atlanta Braves moved from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in 1966. > Atlanta played its first Southern Association game (against the Nashville Baseball Club) on Saturday, April 26, 1902 (Memorial Day) in Piedmont Park before a crowd of around 3,500. For 60 years (until 1961), the Crackers were part of the Class AA Southern Association, a period during whi... > **[Atlanta Black Crackers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Black_Crackers)** > > The Atlanta Black Crackers (originally known as the Atlanta Cubs and later briefly the Indianapolis ABCs) were a professional Negro league baseball team which played during the early to mid-20th century. They were primarily a minor Negro league team; however in the brief period they played as a major Negro league team, they won the second half pennant of the Negro American League in 1938 but lost the play-off for the overall season title. > The Atlanta Black Crackers were founded as the Atlanta C... Both teams are defunct. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/95 "2016-05-20T12:42:17Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > (bolding mine) > > Like where? How many of these can you show us? **Snowboarder Bo** , the second entry on the Google search for “Indian Reservations with a Redskin mascot” shows some schools on Reservations with the Redskin mascot. I’m guessing your Googlefu skills are better than mine and on par with this type of search. This is like every other political discussion. The goal posts move all the time. Before this poll came out if the numbers were 91% offended to 9% not, this would be the end of the discussion for you. There wouldn’t be any discussion if the respondents were “really native American” or “what percentage” they were. What’s that legal quote: “If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table?” I’m guessing if there were 10 schools with the Redskin mascot, the bar would be at 15. If it was 15 the bar would be 20. **Kimstu** , you seem knowledgeable and plugged into this. Can you answer the question I posed earlier, because I’d really like your opinion: > [@spifflog](#): > > I keep coming back the same point others make. It’s inconceivable, to have a predominately black school have their mascot be the Riddell High Negros - or worse. Just never going to happen. And yet there are Reservations with the Redskin mascot. I just can’t understand if it’s that offensive, to even 9% of Native Americans, how that could be. So I’m left thinking it’s not all that offensive to people - unless they’re looking for something to get fired up over. I’m honestly trying to understand if it’s so universally accepted that Redskin is so offensive, why are some Native Americans still using it? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/96 "2016-05-20T12:53:07Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The Washington GOPs. Best blocking in the NFL. But only when the opposing quarterback is black. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/97 "2016-05-20T12:56:37Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Before this poll came out if the numbers were 91% offended to 9% not, this would be the end of the discussion for you. There wouldn’t be any discussion if the respondents were “really native American” or “what percentage” they were. Out of curiosity, if you were denied the ability to accuse people of hypocrisy based on their bizarro-world counterpart’s fantasy hypothetical behavior in an alternate universe, would you still have an argument to make? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/98 "2016-05-20T13:07:01Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I used to be indifferent to Washington’s name but an ad I saw kind of tipped the balance for me. It showed a bunch of Native Americans engaged in various activities and at the end it said “You wouldn’t _call_ them Redskins, would you?” > > And, no, I wouldn’t. Not unless I was ready to get my ass kicked. I think that’s good enough reason for the team to find a new name. How many of what people find it offensive is just a way to make an argument about it, not something that will lead toward resolution. It’s just a name, we don’t need to get to the point of calling it the R-word in order change it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/99 "2016-05-20T13:16:59Z")
There’s a notorious image of a Cleveland Indians fan in redface and headdress in heated conversation with a Native American activist outside a game. When I went looking for it, I found [this story](https://redpowermedia.wordpress.com/2016/04/06/cleveland-indians-fan-apologizes-to-native-american-activist-after-viral-red-face-photo/) in which the fan meets the activist again and apologizes, which was rather heartening. In this case it’s not so much the team name that’s the issue as the cartoonish “Chief Wahoo” mascot. I’m not offended on their behalf but I can certainly understand why people would object to being portrayed in such a manner, and why “de-Chiefing” is becoming more of a thing. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167/100 "2016-05-20T13:23:46Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > There’s a notorious image of a Cleveland Indians fan in redface and headdress in heated conversation with a Native American activist outside a game. When I went looking for it, I found [this story](https://redpowermedia.wordpress.com/2016/04/06/cleveland-indians-fan-apologizes-to-native-american-activist-after-viral-red-face-photo/) in which the fan meets the activist again and apologizes, which was rather heartening. > > In this case it’s not so much the team name that’s the issue as the cartoonish “Chief Wahoo” mascot. I’m not offended on their behalf but I can certainly understand why people would object to being portrayed in such a manner, and why “de-Chiefing” is becoming more of a thing. This is a far worse case of using offensive imagery. I never understood the problem with the word ‘Indian’, but the mascot is clearly offensive. The DC team has the opposite problem, their logo isn’t the least bit offensive, but the name is evoking an old odor that never went away entirely. For humorous relief, there are a number of teams known as [‘The Fighting Quakers’.](https://www.google.com/search?q=fighting+quakers&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwij1LjT3-jMAhXMOz4KHTU8AgQQsAQINw&biw=1280&bih=647) I haven’t seen the Society of Friends get all up in arms about that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-offended-on-behalf-of-other-people-redskins/755167.md?page=6)