# Getting the Short-End of the Stick **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 23, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/251837 "2004-06-23T18:07:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/251837/1 "2004-06-23T18:07:50Z")
There seems to be a lot of stick waving over in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=263034) thread, and it got me to wondering - why the \*short \* end? This is apparently to denote some sort of adverse relationship to the stick, and you’d much prefer to receive the long end of the stick, if you had your druthers. If it was a sword being waved at me, I’d MUCH rather receive the short end than the long end, as the short end is much less likely to tear me in half. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/251837/2 "2004-06-23T19:21:21Z")
Warning! WAG ahead! It sounds to me like a reference to drawing straws – i.e., the selection of who among the group is going to be the sacrificial lamb. Break the stick (read: straw) into unequal segments and force each potential victim to choose one blindly. He who got the short end of the stick was the winner…or should we say the loser? To extend this WAG even further, the expression MIGHT have its origins in the Roman practice of decimating cowardly troops. Each group of ten drew lots (or straws) and the loser was beaten to death by his fellows. Perhaps someone else can confirm or refute this. ---
**Author:** ![Stana\_Claus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stana_claus/32/13874_2.png) [@Stana\_Claus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stana_Claus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/251837/3 "2004-06-23T21:20:35Z")
It is my understanding that the original expression was “the shit end of the stick” and it has been cleaned up for use in mixed company. “Grabbing the shit end of the stick” comes from the old practice of using a slit-trench latrine when setting up a base camp in the woods. After each use of the slit-trench, the user is supposed to cover their feces with a small amount of dirt and stir it up with a stick to aid in more rapid decomposition and keep the smell more under control. Typically, a sturdy stick is left stuck in the ground (or leaning against a tree) next to the trench for this purpose. This works out quite nicely as long as the stick stays upright and you can see what you are doing. But if the stick gets knocked over and you need to avail yourself of the trench after dark, the very real possibility of grabbing the shit end of the stick can be quite shocking (and unpleasant). All this comes from my memory of what I read in an old camping book one time, and may well be a folk etymology made up of whole cloth. So take it for what it’s worth until someone can verify things for you. SC ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/251837/4 "2004-06-23T21:43:26Z")
This has confused me since stick’s ends don’t have lengths. The stick has a length, granted, but unless you put some sort of divider mark on the stick you can’t say it has one short end and one long end. It could have a thick end and a thin end of course. But a short end of a stick seems as meaningless as the short end of a ruler; ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/251837/5 "2004-06-23T22:29:03Z")
I think it’s a combination of two phrases: 1. **Short shrift** meaning a bad deal. when a military chaplain has a lot of wounded soldiers that need the last rites, yhe doesn’t have time to shrive each on4e fully, so he gives them short shrift. 2. **The wrong end of the stick** meaning a misunderstanding or mistake. I think it comes from the days before toilet paper, when people used sponges on sticks. ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/251837/6 "2004-06-23T23:17:33Z")
> [@Stana Claus](#): > > It is my understanding that the original expression was “the shit end of the stick” and it has been cleaned up for use in mixed company. I cry “bullstick”! 🙂 Yeah, I know, horrible, horrible… Here’s what I could find: > [@](#): > > _wrong end of the stick, the_ A misunderstanding or distortion, as in _We ordered a “full quart” of rice, but the clerk got hold of the wrong end of the stick and sent us “four quarts” instead_. This expression refers to a walking stick held upside down, which does not help a walker much. It originated in the 1400s as _worse end of the staff_ and changed to the current wording only in the late 1800s. Also see SHORT END OF THE STICK. > : _short end of the stick, the_ The inferior part, the worse side of an unequal deal. For example, _Helen got the short end of the stick when she was assigned another week of night duty_. The precise analogy in this term, first recorded in the 1930s, has been lost. Some believe it comes from _worse end of the staff_, used since the early 1500s, which in the mid-1800s became, in some instances, short or shitty end of the stick, allegedly from a stick poked up one’s rectum by another in command of the situation. Others believe it alludes to fighting with sticks, where having a shorter stick is a disadvantage. Also see WRONG END OF THE STICK. > : From _The American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms_ (1997) by Christine Ammer > _get hold of the wrong end of the stick_ _coll_ to misunderstand something completely: _I read in the newspaper that the unemployment figures had improved but it has got hold of the wrong end of the stick – unemployment is still increasing_ [V] Compare _get hold of the right end of the stick_ to understand something: _'Did he tell you his whole story – about his shooting the Portuguese Count and everything? . ‘Shooting a Portuguese Count? Are you sure you’ve got hold of the right end of the stick, old boy?’_ (Evelyn Waugh) > : From _Longman Dictionary of English Idioms_ (1979) > > Probably of no relevance, but there’s a coincidental incident related in one of the ‘Vitae’ of St. Patrick, recorded in the 7th or 8th centuries. Patrick, while enthusiastically converting a local king to Christianity, inadvertently pierced the king’s foot with the pointy end of his staff. The king presumed this was part of the baptismal process and bore the pain with fortitude. It was only afterwards, when Patrick tried to bless the king by ‘dubbing’ him with the other end that they both realised that the king had got the wrong end of the stick first. Lookks good but the [source page](http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/16/messages/259.html) is from a forum and I don’t have any other verification. ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/251837/7 "2004-06-23T23:25:45Z")
_Obscure Reference Alert_ I thought Sam Huff invented the phrasing… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/251837/8 "2004-06-24T01:25:46Z")
**tremorviolet’s** cite(by Christine Amer, Am. Hert. Dic. of Idioms) is correct. Her book is very well written and the info is factual. BTW, try NOT to quote huge texts from a webpage or a copyrighted book. Give the basics, then link to the source, as you did. But we’re all guilty of doing that sometimes. Sam Huff was NEVER on the wrong end of a stick! After killing my Skins for years, we finally got him to come over from the Dark Side. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/251837/9 "2004-06-24T01:29:47Z")
Warning: anecdata ahead. I always heard this expression as “the shitty end of the stick”. “Short end” makes no sense to me, but YSMV… ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2004, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-the-short-end-of-the-stick/251837/10 "2004-06-24T02:19:01Z")
Many years ago in Scotland, so the story goes, it was “the mooky end of the stick”. (They had neither toilet paper nor corncobs.) That _certainly_ needed cleaning up.