# Getting ugly **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 1999, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468 "1999-10-05T04:07:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/1 "1999-10-05T04:07:00Z")
I read newspapers but I’m clueless on golf. (This is a spectator sport?) Seems there was some honkin’ big golf do and somebody on the American team did something exciting (?!) and there was high fiving celebration or something. So, on the news shows and in the newspapers there’s a brouhaha over the whole thing. ( Matthew Norman in the London Evening Standard): Headline: Joy of Ugly Victory Brings Out Ugly American. Quote: " Let’s be painfully honest about it. Yes, (Americans) are repulsive people, charmless, rude, cocky, mercenary, humorless, ugly, full of nauseatingly fake religiosity, and as odious in victory as they are unsporting in defeat." Reactions, sports fans? I mean, what about Brazilian soccer (football?) teams? They are so exuberant they make the average American look FINNISH! And Brit soccer riots? All this over _golf_?? Humorless, ugly, mercenary, etc., Veb ---
**Author:** ![Contestant\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Contestant\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contestant_3)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/2 "1999-10-05T04:15:00Z")
Fuck the Brits. They need a laxative if you ask me. They are just pissed because Americans just keep kicking their asses over and over and over and over again… * * * Contestant #3 ---
**Author:** ![Kakkerlak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bb73d2/32.png) [@Kakkerlak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kakkerlak)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/3 "1999-10-05T05:12:00Z")
That’s it, Mr. Norman. I want my lend-lease fleet back. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Crunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Chief\_Crunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Crunch)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/4 "1999-10-05T05:50:00Z")
We still have superior hygiene. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/5 "1999-10-05T06:02:00Z")
I guess I have two questions: 1.) GOLF?? compared to soccer, chess, etc. it’s like watching paint dry 2.) the ugliness… biogotry? justified disgust w/ violations of sport protocol? fine but inviolable lines crossed? I don’t remember seeing this much vitriol over genocide and ethinc cleansing. But I’m pretty dense about the applied and symbolic aspects of sports. Veb (Who are these “Browns” people?) ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/6 "1999-10-05T07:18:00Z")
Golf is not a sport. It’s a game. Like archery or darts or billiards, it’s mainly skill at aiming. That’s why it’s so unexciting. I’d rather watch a game of _Hungry, Hungry Hippos_. Fitness benefit of golf? None. Absolutely none. Stop-and-go walking (mostly stopping) and rapidly twisting your waste 90 times does nothing for fitness. Nothing. It pisses me off when insurance companies give breaks to people who golf (presuming that golfing makes them healthier) or when local governments and schools subsidize golf. Might as well subsidize pool halls and marble tournaments, too. There, ranting done. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/7 "1999-10-05T07:44:00Z")
The Brits are complaining about American manners? Ever seen one of their football (soccer) matches? * * * They call me MISTER Wizard! ---
**Author:** ![Oblio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c4cdca/32.png) [@Oblio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblio)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/8 "1999-10-05T12:37:00Z")
moriah: > [@](#): > > It pisses me off when insurance companies give breaks to people who golf (presuming that golfing makes them healthier) or when local governments and schools subsidize golf. Don’t forget the companies that subsidize golf with money that should be going to the employees that actually produce a product rather than to the elite ‘good ole boy’ club. ## Oblio A point in every direction is like no point at all ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/9 "1999-10-05T12:48:00Z")
The golf-bashing is entirely justified, as always. (Having spent a couple of summers trying to pay for my college education by working for the Greenskeeper of a public course, I am well aware that golfers tend to be the lowest form of life–proto-virus or some such.) However, before this turns into a general Brit-bash: Who in the world is Matthew Norman? Is his bashing of Yanks the approximate equivalent of William F. Buckley jr. taking a shot at the queen? (IOW, some stuffy guy that no one _really_ reads making stuffy pronouncements that only get picked up if it’s a slow day on the newswire?) * * * Tom~ ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/10 "1999-10-05T12:58:00Z")
OK, here’s the skinny on this. The event in question took place at the Ryder Cup, which is basically team golf. The Americans staged the greatest comeback in Ryder Cup history last month, and won the tournament. The problem arose when American Justin Leonard sank a 45-ft. birdie putt on 17. The American _fans_, not the players, began celebrating and jumping around, when in fact one of the European players still had a 25-ft. putt to try, which would have tied the two teams going into 18. Instead, the player missed the putt, and claims that American fans caused him to miss it by celebrating in his line. Apparently, it has gotten uglier since there, with all sorts of accusations of similar behavior by fans from all sides in recent years, personal attacks in the papers by players on other players, etc. There’s a good story about it at [http://sports.yahoo.com/pga/news/ap/990930/ap-rydercup-am.html](http://sports.yahoo.com/pga/news/ap/990930/ap-rydercup-am.html) . Personally, I enjoy golf, watching it and playing it. It’s a good way to waste an afternoon, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/11 "1999-10-05T13:44:00Z")
Well, it was the players, too. They weren’t nearly as boorish as the fans, but they had no business going on the green before Olazabal took his putt, which they did. I didn’t see any players on (or even near) his line, but they shouldn’t have come off the fringe at all. Leonard, team captain Ben Crenshaw, and Tom Lehman have apologized for the American team’s behavior, as the story alludes to. So, yea, we were wrong. But we apologized. And the Europeans should get over it. But Boston should get another crack at hosting a Ryder Cup around the next ice age, not before. And instead of shooting at golf, try a round. It’s more accessible than ever, tons of fun, and you just might get a chance to network with an “old boy” or two. 😉 * * * Livin’ on Tums, Vitamin E and Rogaine ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/12 "1999-10-05T15:57:00Z")
" . . . rapidly twisting your waste 90 times . . " Eewww! Now, there’s a sport I’d go a long way to avoid! ---
**Author:** ![Oblio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c4cdca/32.png) [@Oblio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oblio)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/13 "1999-10-05T16:01:00Z")
It could be parcheezi for all I care, just don’t spend OUR overhead on a few priveledged individuals just because they talk the talk and dress for success and suck up to the pointy haired boss. Spend the money across the board (morale parties) or on those who bust their asses making things happen (bonuses). I’m sick of seeing the bosses nephew get a free ride (to the country club) while the misfits do all (OK most) of the real work. BTW, tried golf, sucked at it. I did enjoy the comradarie within our foursome though 🙂 Oblio * * * A point in every direction is like no point at all ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 1999, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/14 "1999-10-05T16:26:00Z")
I tried golfing once. I hit an 82. Then, on the second hole… ---
**Author:** ![Pickman\_s\_Model](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Pickman\_s\_Model](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pickman_s_Model)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 1999, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/15 "1999-10-06T03:30:00Z")
You have to understand the British mentality. They still think of us as the “colonials”, ya know. They never have quite gotten over the fact that what was left of their empire evaporated between 1945 and 1965, and that the United States Navy is bigger than the Royal Navy, the one that used to “rule the waves”. I happen to be of British extraction (the family came here from Lower Canada in 1868) and I still recall my father telling about family gathering when he was a child; apparently my great-grandfather would slam his fist on the table and roar, “The sun never sets on the British Empire!” Whereupon my great uncle (who came from Tipperary, Ireland) would reply, “And it’s a bloody good thing, too, since you can’t trust the bastards in the dark!” ---
**Author:** ![Jen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@Jen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jen)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 1999, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/16 "1999-10-07T14:11:00Z")
Americans ugly? Now isn’t that just the pot calling the kettle black. Have you ever noticed how much the Brits resemble something that you ride on? ---
**Author:** ![ChiefScott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@ChiefScott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChiefScott)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 1999, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/17 "1999-10-07T15:16:00Z")
I must stand w/pd and come down firmly (with just a touch of backspin) on the side of being pro-golf. I enjoy playing but am an self-admitted duffer. It is a “hoity-toity” game, with a lot of inane rules which don’t affect the game. Dress, speed of play, walk or ride: these rules are in place to benefit the course or club. Other rules; fixing ball marks, replacing divots, raking sand, walking across another player’s line; are courtesies which have been elevated to rules. Yeah, our guys shouldn’t have stormed the green. No, it wouldn’t have effected the outcome of the Rider Cup. You could call it a case of “sour grapes” if the Brits weren’t such golf sticklers _all_ the time. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 1999, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/18 "1999-10-07T16:41:00Z")
My wife asked a colleague recently if he was going golfing that weekend. He admonished her saying “I don’t go ‘golfing’, I go play ‘golf’” Apparently much in the same manner you don’t go basketballing, or you don’t go softballing. Personally I thought he was being a hoity toity schmuck. What do you golfers out there say? Is he right, or just being obnoxious? Enright3 ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 1999, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/getting-ugly/2468/19 "1999-10-08T05:54:00Z")
I’m a golfer (actually, more of a flailer) and I go golfing. Any one who would correct such a usage – even if it were wrong, which it’s not – is in fact a pretentious schmuck.