# Gettysburg Address and chunks of time **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 22, 2019, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876 "2019-06-22T02:31:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/21 "2019-06-25T05:30:03Z")
As a 9-10 year old child in early 1960’s England, I did math\* problems calculating in scores. We converted units of all types: how many pence equal to X shillings , how many pounds in X tons, etc. We learned about gross (12 dozen), scores, bushels , pints, gills (= a portion of a pint, but damned if I remember how much 🙂 ) , etc. I think some prices in the shops were still based on scores. (\* yes, I know, it should have said math **s**. But I didn’t. Yanks rule. 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2019, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/22 "2019-06-25T11:01:19Z")
Gills were (are) a measure of whisky equal to a sixth of a pint. In England, you would get a sixth of a gill in your glass, but the Scots got a quarter. I believe they are all metric these days. As a teenager in the 60s, I can’t recall shops selling stuff by the score but I would have used different shops. At school in the 50s, we did learn about all those archaic measures, but the only one of interest was the ‘chain’ - the length of a wicket. I can still remember that there are 1760 yards in a mile, 5240 pounds in a ton, 112 pounds in a cwt etc. In general ‘score’ can be handy when you want a number more than a dozen but less than a hundred. \*“I’ve told you scores of times.” \* ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/23 "2019-06-26T20:52:46Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Gills were (are) a measure of whisky equal to a sixth of a pint. In England, you would get a sixth of a gill in your glass, but the Scots got a quarter. I believe they are all metric these days. As a teenager in the 60s, I can’t recall shops selling stuff by the score but I would have used different shops. > > At school in the 50s, we did learn about all those archaic measures, but the only one of interest was the ‘chain’ - the length of a wicket. I can still remember that there are 1760 yards in a mile, 5240 pounds in a ton, 112 pounds in a cwt etc. > > In general ‘score’ can be handy when you want a number more than a dozen but less than a hundred. \*“I’ve told you scores of times.” > \* I am always fascinated with old units. What kind of ton contains 5240 lbs? Or alternatively, what pound is 1/5240 of a ton? BTW, this thread re-aquainted me with a gill. I had forgotten about that unit. 🙂 Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/24 "2019-06-26T21:21:27Z")
> [@gkster](#): > > Also, the speech was not originally viewed as eloquent or poetic: > “We pass over the silly remarks of the President,” he wrote in his newspaper. “For the credit of the nation, we are willing that the veil of oblivion shall be dropped over them and that they shall no more be repeated or thought of.” > > "Here’s the Chicago Times, a leading Democratic paper: “The cheek of every American must tingle with shame as he reads the silly flat dishwatery utterances of a man who has to be pointed out to intelligent foreigners as the President of the United States.” > [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/my-great-great-grandfather-hated-the-gettysburg-address-150-years-later-hes-famous-for-it-180947746/#63FmKSLSAIc0L1bm.99](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/my-great-great-grandfather-hated-the-gettysburg-address-150-years-later-hes-famous-for-it-180947746/#63FmKSLSAIc0L1bm.99) Other than that, how was your visit to Gettysburg, Mrs. Lincoln? ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/25 "2019-06-26T21:25:38Z")
> [@rbroome](#): > > I am always fascinated with old units. What kind of ton contains 5240 lbs? . . . . I suspect it’s a typo, supposed to be 2240 pounds. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/26 "2019-06-27T20:08:38Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Other than that, how was your visit to Gettysburg, Mrs. Lincoln? Mary Lincoln didn’t go to the Gettysburg ceremony. Their son was sick and probably wouldn’t have gone anyway. If you’re going to make a joke, get the facts right. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/27 "2019-06-27T20:48:12Z")
> [@gkster](#): > > “The cheek of every American must tingle with shame as he reads the silly flat dishwatery utterances of a man who has to be pointed out to intelligent foreigners as the President of the United States.” Didn’t I just read this today in the Washington Post? ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/28 "2019-06-27T21:31:05Z")
Apparently one reason for the short speech was Lincoln being sick, probably with smallpox: [http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/g16.htm#i3400](http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/g16.htm#i3400) > **[Lincoln’s Illness at Gettysburg](https://contagions.wordpress.com/2009/12/20/lincolns-illness-at-gettysburg/)** > > The Gettysburg address is one of the best known speeches ever delivered by an American president. Few Americans know how close Lincoln came to not delivering it, or that its brevity may owe somethi… _On the train to Gettysburg Lincoln began to tell his staff that he was feeling weak, but he finished editing his address and continued on to Gettysburg. When the arrived Lincoln rode to the cemetery on horseback and viewed the area and plans. When the program began Lincoln sat on the platform for over two hours while classical scholar Edward Everett spoke and during a short musical piece. Lincoln was feeling weaker all the while and observers called his color ‘ghastly’. When the President finally got up, he stunned the crowd with his short address; most were caught so unawares that they missed it. Lincoln judged the crowds silence as disappointment and left Gettysburg himself disappointed. On the train back to Washington Lincoln grew feverish and weaker still. His valet William Johnson sat up with the President wiping his face with a wet cloth to cool him._ Lincoln and his son Tad survived the smallpox attack, but his valet William Johnson died. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/29 "2019-06-27T23:18:02Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > I suspect it’s a typo, supposed to be 2240 pounds. seems reasonable ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/30 "2019-06-28T14:26:00Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Gills were (are) a measure of whisky equal to a sixth of a pint. In England, you would get a sixth of a gill in your glass, but the Scots got a quarter. I believe they are all metric these days. As a teenager in the 60s, I can’t recall shops selling stuff by the score but I would have used different shops. > > At school in the 50s, we did learn about all those archaic measures, but the only one of interest was the ‘chain’ - the length of a wicket. I can still remember that there are 1760 yards in a mile, 5240 pounds in a ton, 112 pounds in a cwt etc. > > In general ‘score’ can be handy when you want a number more than a dozen but less than a hundred. \*“I’ve told you scores of times.” > \* Chains and rods are still in regular use in the US- 66 feet to the chain, 16 1/2 feet to the rod. The Public Land Survey System uses chains as the unit of measure for breaking down sections/townships/ranges (80 chains to the mile!). In the oil and gas industry (here in northeast Wyoming, anyway) most land use agreements pay out road damages in rods. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2019, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/31 "2019-07-07T04:01:57Z")
> [@gkster](#): > > Apparently one reason for the short speech was Lincoln being sick, probably with smallpox… He was indeed ill, but had only been asked by the Gettysburg host committee to offer “a few appropropriate remarks” to dedicate the National Cemetery. He was certainly physically capable that day of giving a longer speech, had it been required. For a fascinating account of the writing, delivery and contents of the Address (and a busting of the many myths to grow up around it), I highly recommend Garry Wills’s Pulitzer Prize-winning book _Lincoln at Gettysburg_: [https://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Gettysburg-America-Schuster-Library/dp/0743299639/ref=sr\_1\_1?crid=1DY1ROTAURWH9&keywords=lincoln+at+gettysburg+by+garry+wills&qid=1562471983&s=books&sprefix=wills+linc%2Cstripbooks%2C119&sr=1-1](https://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Gettysburg-America-Schuster-Library/dp/0743299639/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1DY1ROTAURWH9&keywords=lincoln+at+gettysburg+by+garry+wills&qid=1562471983&s=books&sprefix=wills+linc%2Cstripbooks%2C119&sr=1-1) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/32 "2019-07-07T22:55:49Z")
> [@rbroome](#): > > BTW, this thread re-aquainted me with a gill. I had forgotten about that unit. 🙂 > > Thanks I used them as a Dungeon Master for ‘fortified wine’ – brandy, madeira and such – in the taverns. There were no spirits in my world. I had it pegged at four ounces though. In a similar vein I used 1/2/3 for denoting pricing in mixed coinage, gold/silver/copper pieces on a 20 to 1 ratio. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/33 "2019-07-08T23:37:22Z")
I have always thought it was an explicit allusion to the biblical “threescore years and ten.” He’s drawing attention to the fact that the nation is on the very edge of becoming a legacy, something that outlasted its creators. This intensifies the idea that the Civil War is an existential struggle: will the US become something greater than any of it’s creators, or will it just be a flash in the pan? If the nation is a person, it’s now time for it to pass away; but if it’s something greater than a person, it can pass through this and come through stronger. That’s what they died for–to give the US a life longer than that of a person. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/34 "2019-07-09T13:44:45Z")
“Fourscore” was more common in books back then at least. [Google Ngram](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=fourscore&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cfourscore%3B%2Cc0) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876/35 "2019-07-09T15:14:08Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > It goes back to the Bible Well, it goes back to the King James version at least, anyway. So a ways back. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gettysburg-address-and-chunks-of-time/835876.md?page=1)