# Gfactor: Please explain why you didn't issue a warning **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 9, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964 "2009-11-09T23:37:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/21 "2009-11-10T02:34:58Z")
Yeah, I really don’t care if people modify their behaviors or not. And the guy didn’t say cunt in the pit. He said it in a private message. There’s nothing about being called a cunt that bothers me in any way, so if you want to drop the c-bomb on me in the pit (which isn’t allowed on this board, but I have no personal beef with), in PM, at the bar, or wherever, I just dismiss you as an asshole, and don’t really think much of it. No need to go reporting it to the authorities. That’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/22 "2009-11-10T03:13:09Z")
IANAL I suppose one person can call another a _cunt_ without it being against the law. But a threat of bodily injury may be an _assault_ which may in some places be an actual crime. When someone is charged with _assault and battery_, that means that they are charged with the threat of attack and the attack itself (so I was told after being attacked.) If by any chance it is a crime, that sounds a mite like jerkish behavior to me. But what do I know? Maybe Dopers should feel perfectly free to threaten to gut other Dopers in PM should they ever meet. Just don’t QUOTE the part about addressing the other Doper as a _cunt_ and the _fuck you_ in the Pit! It’s uncivil, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/23 "2009-11-10T04:03:55Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Which one was that? (There are too many “debacles” to count anymore) The one involving **TubaDiva** , I believe. If that clarifies things at all. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/24 "2009-11-10T04:40:57Z")
I’m one of the people who reported the post in question. I do hope **Gfactor** wasn’t referring to me as one of those ‘calling for blood’; The comment I left was pretty much simply ‘Reporting this in case the person the threat was directed to didn’t’, and I left it at that. With that said, however, do we really need that sort of thing? **RNATB** cops to having provoked the other poster in the Pit discussion, but seems to me it’s up to people to be responsible for their own behavior, and replying with a physical threat to someone who has not themselves made a threat seems a bit much. The particular issue that got **bri** so wound up seems to be taking on a life of its own in Wingnut World, where on my way home tonight I listened to one of the local (Houston) right-wing shouters raging that from this point no one should allow their sons or daughters to volunteer for the military, that people had had enough and were going to ‘start taking things into their own hands’ (Huh? Burning mosques, or what?), and repeatedly playing a clip of Obama making a statement advising tolerance of Islam (from a speech apparently made months ago) that clearly seemed intended to incite more rage. In an atmosphere this poisonous, I’m not sure we should be cavalier about someone who says they would be happy to ‘gut’ another poster if they met them IRL. Just my opinion, y’all are free to ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/25 "2009-11-10T10:45:04Z")
I find it astounding that the mods here do nothing about psychopaths issuing death threats. And this isn’t the first time. Utter, utter bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/26 "2009-11-10T11:09:13Z")
The staff can’t read private messages that aren’t addressed to us. I think that we could, possibly, write a hack that would enable us to do so, however, we haven’t done this, and I don’t see us doing this in the near future. Since anyone can modify the text in a PM, then forwarding a PM really doesn’t prove anything. My suggestion is that if someone gets an abusive PM, to write the sender back once, saying that all future PMs from that person will be deleted unread. And then do it. Please don’t post them on the boards. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/27 "2009-11-10T13:27:26Z")
So…wait. If someone get an actual, physical _threat_\*, your Mod advice is “ignore it and hope it goes away”? Don’t out the person, don’t share the threat with anyone to let them know you’ve been threatened., don’t document it (and the mods don’t want to hear it anyway)…just close your eyes, lay back and pretend like it isn’t happening…? But someone says “Cunt” to the wrong person and the the entire board has to be completely changed to protect their delicate, flower-like sensibilities? Those are some very, VERY badly fucked up priorities. Threats are not and have never been acceptable here. Zenster was banned for a purely hypothetical threat\*\* I don’t care about this specific situation as the two parties seem to have resolved it, but the notion that the mods can’t be arsed to investigate claims of actual, real threats–they won’t even contact the alleged threaten-er and check into it? That the advice is “ignore it and hope it goes away”? Sick. And unless those were direct Mod Orders, I encourage everyone to say “Fuck that shit!” and blatently disregard that deranged series of suggestions–if you’re offered a threat in a PM, out the bastard. Make a big stink. Make it clear that it’s NOT ok. That you won’t ignore it. That you’re not going to just hide and hope that it goes away. Of course, if those ARE direct mod orders (delete it, contact the poster and say “You were naughty. I’m going to stick my fingers in my ears and just delete anything else you send” and not tell anyone), then of course we have to bend over and grease up as we follow them obediently. I would not and have not ever encouraged people to break the rules. I just don’t know if that was new, fucking psychotic official board policy or a mod-as-poster’s totally deranged advice. \*Of the “I will hunt you down and gut you like a trout” variety, not the “I hate you and I hope a house falls on your sister” type. \*\*Something along the lines of “You think it’s fucking funny to park in front of a fire hydrant (to a troll who was bragging about how great fire hydrants were because there was always a parking space nearby)? IF I was ever in your town and IF there was a fire and IF your car was in front of a hydrant needed to put it out and IF I had a baseball bat, I’d take it to your car first, and then to you.”. Instaban. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/28 "2009-11-10T13:36:31Z")
I agree with **Fenris**. I’m astonished that we’re being advised by an administrator to ignore any death threats we receive from members in PMs. Is this really board policy? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/29 "2009-11-10T13:55:26Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > So…wait. If someone get an actual, physical _threat_\*, your Mod advice is “ignore it and hope it goes away”? Don’t out the person, don’t share the threat with anyone to let them know you’ve been threatened., don’t document it (and the mods don’t want to hear it anyway)…just close your eyes, lay back and pretend like it isn’t happening…? Actually, no. Please forward the PM to a moderator and state your complaint. We \*will \*do something about it. Moreover, the rules do not currently prohibit posting PM content, so you are free to do that, as long as you don’t violate another rule in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/30 "2009-11-10T14:09:43Z")
> [@](#): > > Rabbi Zwi Chaim Yisroel, an Orthodox scholar of the Torah, and a man who developed whining into an art unheard of in the West [was once stopped by a woman as he was on his way to] the synagogue to celebrate the sacred Jewish holiday commemorating God’s reneging on every promise, [when] a woman stopped him and asked the following question: “Rabbi, why are we not allowed to eat pork?” > > “We’re not?” the Reb said incredulously. “Uh-oh.” Woody Allen, _Getting Even_: [Searching for Meaning in Midrash - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=8lOwjFsVvu0C&pg=PA149&dq=why+we+eat+pork+rabbi+uh+oh+kashrut&ei=QXL5SvnCCoeENNH_wO0O&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=why%20we%20eat%20pork%20rabbi%20uh%20oh%20kashrut&f=false) ::looks down to see if he’s pantless:: ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/31 "2009-11-10T14:23:09Z")
**tacoloco** I haven’t forgotten you. I will respond, but probably a bit later in the day. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/32 "2009-11-10T14:53:27Z")
You know, my main reason to want to show it to everyone (and risk disrupting the community) would be if I don’t think the mods will do anything about it. Knowing we can report them is a lot better. But only if we get to know how they are being punished. If it looks like the mods aren’t doing anything about it, I think it’s likely I’ll feel like I need to do something about it. At the very least, reparations should be required. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/33 "2009-11-10T15:11:48Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > And unless those were direct Mod Orders, I encourage everyone to say “Fuck that shit!” and blatently disregard that deranged series of suggestions–if you’re offered a threat in a PM, out the bastard. Make a big stink. Make it clear that it’s NOT ok. That you won’t ignore it. That you’re not going to just hide and hope that it goes away. This. The modding in this place is getting fucking unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/34 "2009-11-10T20:04:10Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Actually, no. Please forward the PM to a moderator and state your complaint. We \*will \*do something about it. Moreover, the rules do not currently prohibit posting PM content, so you are free to do that, as long as you don’t violate another rule in the process. Thanks for the answer G-man! 🙂 That makes a lot more sense than the earlier “Just ignore it and hope it goes away” response. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/35 "2009-11-10T20:07:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You know, my main reason to want to show it to everyone (and risk disrupting the community) would be if I don’t think the mods will do anything about it. Knowing we can report them is a lot better. But only if we get to know how they are being punished. If it looks like the mods aren’t doing anything about it, I think it’s likely I’ll feel like I need to do something about it. At the very least, reparations should be required. Note again that I _specifically asked them_ not to do anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/36 "2009-11-10T20:14:06Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > Reference: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11758150&postcount=71](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11758150&postcount=71) > > Someone makes a threat of violence in a PM and all you can do is advise them not to do it again? > > From my chair all that business about “we wouldn’t have heard about it” is just hand waving for not doing what was obviously called for. > [@tacoloco](#): > > The big deal is that someone making a threat in a PM is, IMO, a quite serious infraction and I don’t understand the logic in letting it slide. > [@tacoloco](#): > > Letting it slide doesn’t “encourage” people to modify their behavior. I’m not sure this is better or worse. Let me know. There are a few issues here: 1. Moderator note=letting it slide. No. A moderator note is a comment on a post. Many of mine, including this one, include instructions. I just suspended a poster a week or so ago for failing to follow my instructions in a moderator note. 2. Will a moderator note modify behavior? Sure. I don’t see a lot of repeat offenses after moderator notes. When I do, I’ve got some tools to deal with them. See #1 above. 3. How serious an offense is a threat? Well, first of all, with due respect to **Zoe** , an online threat is not an assault. That requires " imminent apprehension of a harmful or offensive contact with that person." [http://www.jud.ct.gov/JI/civil/part3/3.13-1.htm](http://www.jud.ct.gov/JI/civil/part3/3.13-1.htm) It’s definitely possible to violate criminal laws with online threats, but it’s not the sort of conduct that most jurisdictions would classify as an assault. Let me be clear here: If someone assaults you on this message board call the police first, and \*then \*report it to the moderation staff. Even an insta-ban won’t prevent an IRL beating. I’m just not that good. 😉 I actually have trouble seeing much of a difference in severity between “threats” and “insults” in the online context. If a threat is credible, you ought to report it to the authorities \*and \*the staff. If it isn’t, then it’s just another mean thing one person says to another. I’m not saying it’s insignificant. As I said earlier, report it, we will handle it, but let’s not reify it. It’s all just words. Of course, here at the sdmb not all words are created equal. 😉 Nevertheless, it’s about words. 1. What about the fact that it was in a PM? This complicates things. First, there is a choice of rule issue. Do The Pit rules apply to PMs? I’ve answered this already. Generally, no they don’t. I’ve explained the reasons why I treated this particular incident as if they did. Of course, the PM violated Pit rules, but in the Pit, I’d probably have followed my current practice of issuing a mod note for a first offense. Second, there’s a good bit of moral luck involved with the rules and PMs. When you post on the board, your words are public. Everyone sees them. You’re a lot more likely to get caught breaking the rules. In a PM, your words aren’t immediately visible to anyone other than the recipient. If the recipient doesn’t complain to the staff, you get away with whatever you’ve done, just like a speeder who doesn’t get caught. That’s reality. This case is complicated by the fact that RNATB posted the PM, but didn’t complain about it. As far as I can tell, that’s a case of first impression here. I’m not inclined to hand out warnings (or worse) in cases of first impression. Third, Bri may have thought he had a expectation of privacy in his insulting and threatening PM. If he did, he was wrong. I didn’t take any expectation of privacy into account in my decision. None of the staff that responded thought this merited a suspension (I asked after you opened this thread, not many responded at all). So it’s down to a judgment call between a warning and a moderator note. I went with a moderator note. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/37 "2009-11-10T20:21:04Z")
God damn it **Gfactor**! How are we supposed to be outraged at your moderating when you come in here all level-headed, reasonable and actually explaining your actions? You are going to lose so many Mod Points for this it’s not even funny. If you hurry you can still delete your post (and this one lol) before anyone else see is and I promise not to spill the beans if you scratch my back. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/38 "2009-11-10T20:22:30Z")
I wouldn’t ask him to scratch your back. He has lawyer-claws; they’re six inches long and razor sharp. Also, a forked tongue and hooves. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/39 "2009-11-10T20:22:46Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > What do these warnings add up to, anyway? Twenty bucks; same as downtown. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964/40 "2009-11-10T20:24:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I wouldn’t ask him to scratch your back. He has lawyer-claws; they’re six inches long and razor sharp. > > Also, a forked tongue and hooves. Oh god you’re right! I completely forgot. :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gfactor-please-explain-why-you-didnt-issue-a-warning/516964.md?page=3)