# Ghani & Abdullah will sign SOFA with USA - Is it 'defeat' for Taliban? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2014, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghani-abdullah-will-sign-sofa-with-usa-is-it-defeat-for-taliban/685522 "2014-04-07T01:57:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghani-abdullah-will-sign-sofa-with-usa-is-it-defeat-for-taliban/685522/21 "2014-04-08T19:13:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No. nm. Better said [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=715398&page=4). ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghani-abdullah-will-sign-sofa-with-usa-is-it-defeat-for-taliban/685522/22 "2014-04-08T22:52:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, all the troops can’t come home and therefore it’s not victory, and not defeat for the The Taliban, like you, want all foreign troops to depart from Afghanistan immediately. Milions of Afghans just voted for two presidential candidates that oppose you and the Taliban on that matter. It is strange how you interpret the voter’s rejection of the Taliban’s main objective as ‘not a defeat’ for them and ‘not a defeat’ their terroristic insurgency. Can you explain or back up with some logic how you arrived at such a conclusion? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghani-abdullah-will-sign-sofa-with-usa-is-it-defeat-for-taliban/685522/23 "2014-04-09T00:16:42Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The Taliban, like you, want all foreign troops to depart from Afghanistan immediately. Milions of Afghans just voted for two presidential candidates that oppose you and the Taliban on that matter. It is strange how you interpret the voter’s rejection of the Taliban’s main objective as ‘not a defeat’ for them and ‘not a defeat’ their terroristic insurgency. Can you explain or back up with some logic how you arrived at such a conclusion? I just did. You quoted it. I’m not going to play that game you like to play where you pretend an argument has not been made because you disagree with it. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghani-abdullah-will-sign-sofa-with-usa-is-it-defeat-for-taliban/685522/24 "2014-04-09T01:08:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I just did. You quoted it. I’m not going to play that game you like to play where you pretend an argument has not been made because you disagree with it. I am not pretending that you have not made an argument as verified by the fact that you admit that I ‘quoted it’. Is it not true that, \*“The Taliban, like you, want all foreign troops to depart from Afghanistan immediately. \*”? And that being the case, unless you tell me I am wrong, how is it that two candidates getting the most of seven million votes, will defy the Taliban, and you, and sign the agreement that will allow US troops to remain. You are claiming the vote was not a ‘defeat for the Taliban’. That makes no sense. Your point that is was not a defeat for the Taliban just does not make sense. I’m giving you a chance to make sense out of what you wrote. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghani-abdullah-will-sign-sofa-with-usa-is-it-defeat-for-taliban/685522/25 "2014-04-09T01:12:20Z")
I said it wasn’t “defeat”, which is what you claimed. Now you are moving the goalpost to “a defeat”. “Defeat” is final; “a defeat” can be almost anything. I’m also not going to play “move the goalpost” with you. Been there, done that. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghani-abdullah-will-sign-sofa-with-usa-is-it-defeat-for-taliban/685522/26 "2014-04-09T11:32:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I said it wasn’t “defeat”, which is what you claimed. Now you are moving the goalpost to “a defeat”. “Defeat” is final; “a defeat” can be almost anything. Lets put the goal posts exactly where you think they are: It is strange how you interpret the voter’s rejection of the Taliban’s main objective as ‘not defeat’ for them on the question of foreign troops and ‘not defeat’ for their terroristic insurgency. Can you explain or back up with some logic how you arrived at such a conclusion? And now the definition of defeat: > [@](#): > > 1. to overcome in a contest, election, battle, etc.; prevail over; vanquish: They defeated the enemy. She defeated her brother at tennis. > 2. to frustrate; thwart. > 3. to eliminate or deprive of something expected: The early returns defeated his hopes of election. I impose meaning number 2. to frustrate; thwart on you. Have the voters in Afghanistan frustrated and thwarted what you and the Taliban want? Foreign troops to leave Afghanistan immediately ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghani-abdullah-will-sign-sofa-with-usa-is-it-defeat-for-taliban/685522/27 "2014-04-12T07:06:29Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > So victory is when the enemy doesn’t attack where there are cameras ? Colour me dubious. No there were no cameras at every point where the Afghan Police and Army protected voting places. No there were no cameras at all the schools where 4 million girls now attend. And the the literacy rate has doubled since 2002 and should double again during the next few years. The Taliban don’t allow girls to go to school. They don’t attack thousands of schools… where there are no cameras. Printed in the WSJ before the vote: Read More: [http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303978304579475552537648162?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303978304579475552537648162.html](http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303978304579475552537648162?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303978304579475552537648162.html) > [@](#): > > **An Election Watershed for Afghanistan** A country that has made remarkable strides since 2001 prepares to take another one with Saturday’s vote. By James F. Dobbins April 3, 2014 6:39 p.m. ET > > Millions of Afghans will go to the polls on Saturday in a demonstration of their commitment to preserve the gains made during the 13 years since the fall of the Taliban. These advances have been truly remarkable. The size of the Afghan economy has more than quadrupled, with GDP reaching $19.1 billion in 2011, up from $4 billion in 2002. Longevity has increased by 20 years to over 62 years in 2012 from 42 in 2002, an extraordinary improvement. Literacy has more than doubled to nearly 30% in 2012 from 12% percent in 2003. With nearly a third of all Afghans currently in school, including **more than four million girls** , the literacy rate should double again in the coming years. > > These gains have come about in no small part due to the sacrifices of U.S. service personnel and civilians, working with our international and Afghan partners. > [@](#): > > This is the first Afghan election under full Afghan control. It represents a further milestone in the transition to comprehensive Afghan leadership as the U.S. and its NATO allies continue their drawdowns of troops. The U.S. and other donors are providing assistance, but the electoral institutions are being run entirely by Afghans. > > Similarly, Afghan military and police are fully in charge of election security; in 2009 the U.S. and other NATO members provided the bulk of the security force. It is a mark of how far Afghan institutions have come that this election is now on track to be the first ever to take place on schedule. > [@](#): > > Although the Taliban have threatened to derail this election, the Afghan government, security forces, electoral officials—and, most important, the Afghan people—are showing themselves determined not to let that happen. The U.S. will stand with them on April 5, as they determine their country’s future course, and we will continue to stand with a sovereign and united Afghanistan. > > Mr. Dobbins is the U.S. special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghani-abdullah-will-sign-sofa-with-usa-is-it-defeat-for-taliban/685522.md?page=1)