# Ghost in the Shell (2017) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 15, 2016, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055 "2016-11-15T15:09:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/1 "2016-11-15T15:09:12Z")
Another movie I am VERY much looking forward to, and one that they seem to be doing a great job on, considering they are translating one the 3 or 4 most beloved and important anime into live-action film. And it stars Scarlet Johansson. I think it’s fantastic that she’s getting a role with some depth; the lady can really act. [Trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUtG93BebJ4) [IMDB page](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1219827/?ref_=nv_sr_1) I think this looks fantastic. I hope they don’t fuck it up. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/2 "2016-11-15T16:22:36Z")
Hmm, it looks like they re-use two fight scenes from the anime in a new story. That makes me a little nervous, as fight scenes are usually easier to write than a good story. Either way, I’m a sucker for the series. I’ll be seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/3 "2016-11-15T16:53:33Z")
Are they actually going to call her “Major” without giving her a name? I expect that someone who looks like Scarlett Johansson is unlikely to be named “Mokoto Kusanagi”, but I’d hope there would be a more elegant way around that. Also I don’t remember, “how did I end up a cyborg?” being a theme in the anime. In that world, being a cyborg was so common that it would go unremarked on. Did I miss an episode/movie where they covered that, or maybe in the manga? I know the new “arise” series makes some mention. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/4 "2016-11-15T17:12:48Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Are they actually going to call her “Major” without giving her a name? I expect that someone who looks like Scarlett Johansson is unlikely to be named “Mokoto Kusanagi”, but I’d hope there would be a more elegant way around that. > > Also I don’t remember, “how did I end up a cyborg?” being a theme in the anime. In that world, being a cyborg was so common that it would go unremarked on. Did I miss an episode/movie where they covered that, or maybe in the manga? I know the new “arise” series makes some mention. I’m not going to delve too deeply into the plot of this film before I see it. I know the basics; if they change details, I’ll find out when I see it. I am a fan of the series, but have no experience with the manga. I’m going to try and watch, evaluate and appreciate this film on it’s own, as I’m sure there will be deviations from the now 20+ year old story. On the IMDB page the character is listed only as The Major. Miss Johansson also refers to the character that way in the trailer intro. I admit a part of me said “oh great, another Western casting of an Eastern character”, but I think the world of GitS is sufficiently different and integrated that that should be easy to overlook. It’s not like the character in the anime was obviously intended to be Asian, so I’m hopeful that good acting, writing and directing can overcome that small obstacle. I thought the fight scenes looked well done; they were certainly instantly recognizable as being direct transfers from the anime. ---
**Author:** ![gregorio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@gregorio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gregorio)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/5 "2016-11-15T17:17:59Z")
The transition to live action is leaving me cold. I have a feeling this is going to be another Johnny Mnemonic for me. I felt disappointed and let down when I saw that. I’ve watched the trailer a few times and a few negative things jumped out at me right away: I don’t remember robot geisha’s from Ghost In The Shell, but there were similar cyborg/mechas in GITS2. That immediately took me out of the story and it was the first two shots of the trailer. The Major’s camo/invisibility suit looks dumb. It worked for me in animation. Not so much in real life. Batou’s glasses/goggles/implants look dumb. So does his hair. Again, I think some things don’t work in real life that are easily accepted in drawings. Also, will Togusa have a mullet? Major waking up in bed. The anime had almost zero detail. It was black and white, sillhouettes and shadows. In the trailer Major unjacks herself and is wearing some sort of bulky clothing. The scene is sepia and hazy where it should be stark. I don’t think I am buying Scarlett Johannson as the Major. The Major is shown to be quite muscular in a few scenes. The puppet master is in a male cyborg body? The large groups of people(?) cyborgs(?) tethered up Matrix style but looking like meditating buddhist monks . I think I know where the story is going there based on the dialogue but I don’t remember that in the anime. A few things I did like: The river fight scene. I thought the coming out of invisibility effect was pretty cool. The final fight using the columns for protection. I knew exactly what it was and was doing a mental “oh yeah!” when I saw that. The Blade Runner like street advertisements. This film will look good for sure. So based on one trailer there was more negative than positive for me. I want this to be a good movie but I’ll wait for reviews and discussion here to decide if I’ll go to a theatre to see it. All this is imho obviously. And I have only seen the first two features, none of Stand Alone Complex or any other features, episodes if there are any. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/6 "2016-11-15T17:42:59Z")
The biggest negative for me is that I just don’t like Scarlet Johansson. Also, I’d rather see new GITS adventures than a remake of an old one. They’ve clearly put a lot of effort into special effects, but I’m not really that kind of movie-goer. I guess we’ll see. It will go into my NetFlix queue. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/7 "2016-11-15T17:52:40Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > It’s not like the character in the anime was obviously intended to be Asian, so I’m hopeful that good acting, writing and directing can overcome that small obstacle. Characters in anime do not typically _look_ Asian even if they are intended to be. There’s even a term for it: [Mukokuseki](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Mukokuseki). I think I would be happier if they went with, “Yes I am Japanese. Yes I look European. I’m a cyborg with a full-body prosthesis – I can look however I want”. Not saying the name seems like elephant-in-the-room avoiding. One thing I really think was well done is that her movements seem like they are not quite human. Like the parts of her body she is actually using at the moment move like a human, but the parts of her body she’s not using revert to “manikin” mode. Also I think Batou looks cool. ---
**Author:** ![Unpronounceable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de0a6/32.png) [@Unpronounceable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unpronounceable)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/8 "2016-11-15T18:03:18Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > I think I would be happier if they went with, “Yes I am Japanese. Yes I look European. I’m a cyborg with a full-body prosthesis – I can look however I want”. Not saying the name seems like elephant-in-the-room avoiding. This, per the whitewashing claim (it would have been hilarious if they’d simply hired 3 or 4 different actresses & had her switch out bodies from time to time.) Still, no Tachikomas, no sale. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/9 "2016-11-15T18:40:02Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Characters in anime do not typically _look_ Asian even if they are intended to be. There’s even a term for it: [Mukokuseki](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Mukokuseki). > > I think I would be happier if they went with, “Yes I am Japanese. Yes I look European. I’m a cyborg with a full-body prosthesis – I can look however I want”. Not saying the name seems like elephant-in-the-room avoiding. I did not know that; thanks for the info. Strangely, I am not a fan of manga at all and I dislike most anime. I do appreciate many of the various artistic styles found in both, but I definitely gravitate towards stuff that looks like vintage 1980s _Metal Hurling_ rather than the Disney/Warner Bros. stuff. Same goes for content; I’m a lifelong science fiction geek, after all. The thing is, when I find an anime that is good, it’s usually not just “damn that was pretty cool” but rather “holy fuck that was goddamned amazing” to me. Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Appleseed; I even enjoy the Final Fantasy movies, despite the fact that they make almost no sense at all (this year’s Final Fantasy: Kingsglaive had a much better, although still seriously flawed, plot and characters). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/10 "2016-11-15T18:50:26Z")
I caved in and looked at [the Wikipedia page for the film](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell_(2017_film)). There’s a whole section on the casting controversy: > [@](#): > > In Japan, fans of the manga were surprised that the casting caused controversy with many already assuming that the Hollywood production would choose a white actress in the lead role, since they consider that not too much attention should be paid to the physical appearance of the main protagonist because the dominant themes in Ghost in the Shell are the nature of self-identity and how it becomes affected with the use of different cyborg bodies that host human cyber-brains. Sam Yoshiba, director of the international business division at Kodansha’s Tokyo headquarters (the company which holds the rights to the series and its characters) said, “Looking at her career so far, I think Scarlett Johansson is well cast. She has the cyberpunk feel. And we never imagined it would be a Japanese actress in the first place… this is a chance for a Japanese property to be seen around the world.” > > During a launch event in Tokyo, Sanders said of Johansson, “There are very few actresses with 20 years’ experience who have the cyberpunk ethic already baked in. I stand by my decision — she’s the best actress of her generation”. Paramount released a featurette of Mamoru Oshii (director of the original films) visiting the studio, in which he says that Johansson exceeded his expectations for the role. Paul addressed the controversy, referring to the setting of the film as “an international world”, stating “There [are] all sorts of people and nationalities in the world in Ghost in the Shell. We’re utilizing people from all over the world. There’s Japanese in it. There’s Chinese in it. There’s English in it. There’s Americans in it.” I think the bit about the story’s exploration of identity and what it means to be human are great arguments in favor of Miss Johansson’s casting and in dismissing any concerns of whitewashing. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/11 "2016-11-15T20:03:43Z")
I saw part of the trailer on my Facebook page. The visual style reminded me of that Keanu Reeves movie where he’s a samurai (or something) and they’ve blown out the visual stylings of the ‘orient’ to 11. Oshii Mamoru is a (sometimes) great director, but even the original didn’t do much for me. It was pretty strongly in the ‘more impressed with itself than it deserves’ realm of his philosophical monologue films. The action sequences were well done, but that doesn’t make a film for me. This film doesn’t look like they’re trying to take either, nor adding anything good in return. Easy pass. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/12 "2016-11-16T01:11:11Z")
Color me hopeful but not yet particularly optimistic. As in, it could be quite good, or it could be dreck, and I don’t know which way to lean yet. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/13 "2016-11-16T01:31:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Color me hopeful but not yet particularly optimistic. As in, it could be quite good, or it could be dreck, and I don’t know which way to lean yet. Right? Could be another _Aeon Flux_ or _Judge Dredd_ or… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/14 "2016-11-16T03:03:08Z")
Well, for sure I wish Shirow and his publisher much enjoyment of their Very Large Checks 😃 > [@leahcim](#): > > Are they actually going to call her “Major” without giving her a name? Most of the dialog in the graphic novel and the first anime, as translated, addressed her IIRC as just “Major”. But I agree that the part about how she and the other Section 9ers arrive at their current state is _not_ prominent in the originals. There is no “origin story”. The philosophical musings take that condition as point of departure, but in-universe full cyborgization is part of ordinary life and though those who can afford high augments and android servants are the “one percenters” (or, get their tech because they work for the state), even the garbageman can be plugged in and have his mind hacked. Backstory is alluded opaquely, if/when at all. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/15 "2016-11-16T09:51:42Z")
> [@gregorio](#): > > I don’t remember robot geisha’s from Ghost In The Shell That’s from the Ghost in the Shell TV show “Stand Alone Complex”. It seems from the trailer that they are borrowing from many sources - from the TV show, and from the manga (re: lesbian scenes, lighting effects, the waking up scene etc.). ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/16 "2016-11-16T14:42:47Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Most of the dialog in the graphic novel and the first anime, as translated, addressed her IIRC as just “Major”. At least in the dubbings I’ve seen, other people often referred to her as “Major” (addressing her directly) or “The Major” (talking about her in third person), but I don’t recall hearing her refer to herself as just her rank as she does in the trailer. I’m a little scared that we are not looking at “Major Mokoto Kusanagi of Public Security Section 9”, but “Major Amanda Ferguson of NYPD Special Task Force 9 Who Is More Relatable To American Males 18-49”. 🙂 > [@](#): > > But I agree that the part about how she and the other Section 9ers arrive at their current state is _not_ prominent in the originals. There is no “origin story”. The philosophical musings take that condition as point of departure, but in-universe full cyborgization is part of ordinary life and though those who can afford high augments and android servants are the “one percenters” (or, get their tech because they work for the state), even the garbageman can be plugged in and have his mind hacked. Backstory is alluded opaquely, if/when at all. The more recent _Arise_ series went a little more into the background of Section 9, and revealed that: Major Kusanagi’s mother was killed while she was pregnant and the Major has been a brain in a cyborg body since before she was born but the navel-gazing “OMG how did this all happen?” implied in the trailer never happens. It’s like, “yep, we’re cyborgs” in the same way that a work set in the modern day would be, “yep, we’re taking a car” no matter how magical that would be to someone from the 17th century. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/17 "2016-11-29T20:23:16Z")
When I saw the teaser trailer I was pumped, and then I saw the official trailer and was worried, then I saw another teaser [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5amv-vqUFo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5amv-vqUFo) and was again stoked to see it. I really hope it’s a good film, I get good vibes due to Scarlett Johansson being in it and her past work. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/18 "2016-11-29T21:02:55Z")
Honestly, I’ve not seen the animated movie and I’m pretty excited. I may hold off on watching the animated one until seeing this in order to view it with no preconceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/19 "2016-11-29T22:40:45Z")
[I am!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=810973) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055/20 "2016-11-30T01:45:09Z")
[Moderating] Since we had a recent thread, but **Ryan\_Liam** added new information, I’ve merged the threads. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-in-the-shell-2017/772055.md?page=2)