# Ghost question?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [July 17, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791 "2006-07-17T00:41:37Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@happywaffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happywaffle)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2006, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/21 "2006-07-18T23:41:56Z")
Yeah, I know about good old Randi. I think skepticism is good. I also think too much skepticism puts you in a situation where you blind yourself to ANY possibility of something outside your assumptions.
And, more to the point, I don’t think it’s possible to prove ghosts exist. They don’t follow the laws of physics, they don’t show up and sit down for experiments, they don’t wander around for the benefit of cameras, etc. I enjoy ghosts for the stories they give us and the thrill of being scared. I don’t try to prove or disprove that they exist. But, like I said, some stories I’ve heard are pretty darn compelling.
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### Author:  [@Kebert\_Xela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kebert_Xela)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/22 "2006-07-19T21:46:04Z")
> [@happywaffle](#):
>
> Yeah, I know about good old Randi. I think skepticism is good. I also think too much skepticism puts you in a situation where you blind yourself to ANY possibility of something outside your assumptions.
>
> And, more to the point, I don’t think it’s possible to prove ghosts exist. They don’t follow the laws of physics, they don’t show up and sit down for experiments, they don’t wander around for the benefit of cameras, etc. I enjoy ghosts for the stories they give us and the thrill of being scared. I don’t try to prove or disprove that they exist. But, like I said, some stories I’ve heard are pretty darn compelling.
It’s true… lack of evidence doesn’t necessarily mean something doesn’t exist, Randi is just trying to disprove people who do claim to have solid evidence of paranormal phenomena.
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### Author:  [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2006, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/23 "2006-07-20T01:25:20Z")
> [@Ragiel](#):
>
> I’m having trouble with “search” today, but I seem to remember a **Sampiro** story about encountering the ghost of a black child or children. Clothed, apparently.
I won’t say it’s true, but it did really happen. 🙂
([Post 246 & 247 of this page.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=326481&page=5&pp=50&highlight=weokahatchee). There are many ghost stories involving black haints in the south. I once had a job driving a van for mental patients in group therapy and it took me into some _very_ rough areas of Montgomery, AL (i.e. you’d be surprised that Montgomery has areas this scary) and some of the residents [not just the mental patients] were terrified of “Jackie”, a dead teenaged whore who according to the slightly suburban legends roamed the housing project looking for her killer and her children.)
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2006, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/24 "2006-07-20T03:13:10Z")
> [@Walloon](#):
>
> Given that Wal-Mart is just about the most popular retailer in America, why would there be one in Hell? Think about the logic of your statement.
Well, of course they are seeking to expand into new markets, especially non-unionized ones.
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### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2006, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/25 "2006-07-20T03:51:23Z")
> [@happywaffle](#):
>
> Yeah, I know about good old Randi. I think skepticism is good. I also think too much skepticism puts you in a situation where you blind yourself to ANY possibility of something outside your assumptions.
>
> And, more to the point, I don’t think it’s possible to prove ghosts exist. They don’t follow the laws of physics, they don’t show up and sit down for experiments, they don’t wander around for the benefit of cameras, etc.
The earth is made of custard. We cannot prove this, but there are compelling stories to this effect and denying it is merely proof of your closed mind.
More seriously.
We have been looking for evidence for thousands of years and we have a few blurry photos (the better ones are the obvious frauds) and a few unreliable accounts (which some people find scary and others do not) and some theological justification (and some theological refutation, but you can use theology to justify or refute anything whatsoever) and … nothing else. It is the same level of evidence we have always had. For millennia. Why is that, do you think?
> [@DrFidelius](#):
>
> We all know people who are psychically “colour blind” and cannot even feel the emotional echoes in the great hall of Ellis Island. If one of those persons is the observer, I can assure you that there will be no clothing, and most likely they will not recognize the encounter as being paranormal at all.
Do two psychically “fully sighted” people see the same things at the same time in the same place?
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### Author:  [@bat312](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bat312)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/26 "2006-07-20T04:02:09Z")
Where are all the black, gansta rapper ghosts? You would think that there would be a lot of them around with all that violent death.
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### Author:  [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2006, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/27 "2006-07-20T14:32:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#):
>
> Well, of course they are seeking to expand into new markets, especially non-unionized ones.
Ha!
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### Author:  [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/28 "2006-07-20T14:51:38Z")
Given that millions of people were killed in the WW2 concentration camps in violent and cruel ways I would have thought that if ghosts exist then surely some would have materialised out of this scenario.
I suppose the same could be said of the millions of soldiers killed in battles the world over not to mention civilians killed in bombing raids etc.
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### Author:  [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/29 "2006-07-20T20:16:17Z")
> [@Kebert Xela](#):
>
> Randi is just trying to disprove people who do claim to have solid evidence of paranormal phenomena.
More importantly - he is trying to disprove the people making money off of paranormal phenomena.
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### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2006, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/30 "2006-07-20T20:31:24Z")
> [@chowder](#):
>
> I suppose the same could be said of the millions of soldiers killed in battles the world over not to mention civilians killed in bombing raids etc.
By this standard, the world should be saturated through with ghosts.
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### Author:  [@happywaffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happywaffle)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2006, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/31 "2006-07-21T00:35:33Z")
> [@xizor](#):
>
> More importantly - he is trying to disprove the people making money off of paranormal phenomena.
If ghost tours are included in that, then I take strong exception! 😃
Kidding. The real people who need shutting down are pop psychics who prey on bereaved relatives and so forth. I say they all need to go.
Oh, and, ghosts most certainly are rare by any standard. Why they seem to pop up in some places but not others, I dunno. Even assuming they don’t exist, one would expect ghost stories to be reported at the concentration camps too!
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### Author:  [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2006, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/32 "2006-07-21T02:05:05Z")
> [@Derleth](#):
>
> By this standard, the world should be saturated through with ghosts.
The world is saturated with [neutrinos](http://www.ps.uci.edu/~superk/neutrino.html) and nobody notices **them**.
We presume much, if we presume ghosts are taking up space as we know and experience it. Who are we to say that all of the ghosts ever created by death in the last hundred million years are not comfortably cohabitating on the head of a pin somewhere in Tulsa, Oklahoma? Or nestled together underneath the last bar stool on the left at Bertha’s Mussels in Baltimore?
Cartooniverse
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### Author:  [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2006, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/33 "2006-07-21T03:16:55Z")
> [@Colibri](#):
>
> Well, of course they are seeking to expand into new markets, especially non-unionized ones.
Hell is **non** -unionized labor?
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### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2006, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/34 "2006-07-21T03:26:10Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#):
>
> The world is saturated with [neutrinos](http://www.ps.uci.edu/~superk/neutrino.html) and nobody notices **them**.
We can repeatably and verifiably ‘notice’ them whenever we set up detectors in well-known ways and kinds of places. People don’t claim the ability to see them and people don’t accuse people who do not make such claims of being ‘colorblind’.
> [@](#):
>
> We presume much, if we presume ghosts are taking up space as we know and experience it. Who are we to say that all of the ghosts ever created by death in the last hundred million years are not comfortably cohabitating on the head of a pin somewhere in Tulsa, Oklahoma? Or nestled together underneath the last bar stool on the left at Bertha’s Mussels in Baltimore?
So people who have determined to believe invent ever more complex rationalizations, ever more complex epicycles and _ad hockery_, ever more complex reasons why none of the experiments are repeatable instead of coming to the conclusion that the supernatural does not exist. The difference between ‘colorblind’ and purblind seems to be the ability to step back from absurdity.
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### Author:  [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2006, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/35 "2006-07-21T03:46:31Z")
> [@happywaffle](#):
>
> As for my personal opinion, I’ve heard plenty of stories that I have no possible alternate explanation for, including sightings of people in old-timey clothing, etc.
Did you try, as a possible alternate explanation: people make stuff up?
I find it a good alternate explanation for a lot.
> [@happywaffle](#):
>
> And, more to the point, I don’t think it’s possible to prove ghosts exist. They don’t follow the laws of physics, they don’t show up and sit down for experiments, they don’t wander around for the benefit of cameras, etc.
What do they do, then?
> [@xizor](#):
>
> More importantly - he is trying to disprove the people making money off of paranormal phenomena.
I’m not aware of any basis for this statement. I have never particularly seen him distinguish between amateurs and professionals. Also, his challenge is that someone prove their ability. I’m not aware of him trying to disprove anything much.
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### Author:  [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/36 "2006-07-21T03:55:56Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I’m not aware of any basis for this statement. I have never particularly seen him distinguish between amateurs and professionals. Also, his challenge is that someone prove their ability. I’m not aware of him trying to disprove anything much.
Not arguing or anything, but I’ve seen him on lots of shows and he holds a lot of contempt for people who claim to see ghosts, have abilities and make money off the stuff. I’ve even heard him speak of disproving them in so many words. Just going by what I’ve heard him say.
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### Author:  [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/37 "2006-07-21T22:46:20Z")
> [@Derleth](#):
>
> The difference between ‘colorblind’ and purblind seems to be the ability to step back from absurdity.
I have to agree with this.
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### Author:  [@happywaffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happywaffle)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2006, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/38 "2006-07-21T23:10:31Z")
> [@Princhester](#):
>
> Did you try, as a possible alternate explanation: people make stuff up?
>
> I find it a good alternate explanation for a lot.
>
> What do they do, then?
(a) Absolutely. But when ten different people give ten identical stories about the same place, none of whom know each other or even know anything special about the location, you start to wonder.
(b) Same thing dark matter and Higgs bosons do all day, I suppose.
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### Author:  [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)
#### Post date: [July 22, 2006, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/39 "2006-07-22T05:05:16Z")
> [@happywaffle](#):
>
> (a) Absolutely. But when ten different people give ten identical stories about the same place, none of whom know each other or even know anything special about the location, you start to wonder.
People make stuff up. I find it a good alternate explanation for a lot.
> [@](#):
>
> Same thing dark matter and Higgs bosons do all day, I suppose.
What’s that? And what are the distinguishing points between them and ghosts?
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### Author:  [@happywaffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happywaffle)
#### Post date: [July 22, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-question/364791/40 "2006-07-22T14:21:23Z")
> [@Princhester](#):
>
> What’s that? And what are the distinguishing points between them and ghosts?
Heh, it was a joke. They’re both things that are predicted by modern quantum physics but have yet to actually been seen or observed in an experiment. Like ghosts.
And, no need to repeat yourself, I get your point. Again, I’m pretty goshdarn skeptical myself, given the cockameme stories I hear from tourists on a weekly basis. But, leaving one’s mind open to all possibilities - as any open-minded, skeptical, logical person should - if identical stories come in from various people about a single place, it becomes increasingly **less** likely they’re all making it up, and **more** likely that there’s some reason they’re all having the same experience. Doesn’t have to be ghosts; maybe there’s a funny reflection from a streetlight outside or a leak of laughing gas in the hallway or something. But it merits investigation if it’s more than some one-off story you hear a couple of times.
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