# Ghost Sighting On Tape **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2003, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158 "2003-12-20T11:28:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/121 "2003-12-22T15:45:37Z")
It was circular for you to say that the “energy beings” were real because they told you so. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/122 "2003-12-22T15:52:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > When I was in the Navy we visited an Island on which an old fortress was built. It was rumored that the prison cell had a Ghost living in it. A prisoner that had died there. > > Although I didn’t see any Ghost when I entered the old cell, I felt a large drop in the temperature. It was over a 100 outside and so cold inside I wished for a sweater. Great story. :rolleyes: You looked for a ghost and didn’t find one, so they exist? D’ya tink the temperature drop in the old cell might have been similar to that in a cave? If you’re going to attribute cold caves to the presence of ghosts, they shouldn’t be all that difficult to find; caves are all over the place. Hey – could I hire a ghost to provide household air conditioning? What do you feed one? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@handsomeharold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharold)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/123 "2003-12-22T15:54:28Z")
It was a straw man for you to say that I say that the “energy beings” were real because they told me so. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/124 "2003-12-22T16:24:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handsomeharold \* > \*\*It was a straw man for you to say that I say that the “energy beings” were real because they told me so. \*\* How was that a strawman? How was it **not** circular reasoning on your part? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/125 "2003-12-22T16:31:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handsomeharold \* > \*\*It was a straw man for you to say that I say that the “energy beings” were real because they told me so. \*\* What did you mean by this statement? > [@](#): > > Thus it was explained to me by one of these beings of pure energy. Any sort of information or evidence that you receive solely from communicating with these beings is circular. You can’t cite your hallucinations to prove your hallucinations. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@handsomeharold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharold)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/126 "2003-12-22T17:09:14Z")
I was discussing their nature not their existence. There are literally thousands of eyewitness accounts – you cannot ignore them out of existence. The fact that one such sighting may be a fake does not mean that they all are. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/127 "2003-12-22T17:17:42Z")
I just popped into this thread, and it’s amazing. The arguments remind me of those crop circle idiots: “I know that some crop circles are made by humans, but that doesn’t prove that some couldn’t have been made by space aliens!” ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/128 "2003-12-22T17:20:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handsomeharold \* > \*\*There are literally thousands of eyewitness accounts – you cannot ignore them out of existence. > > The fact that one such sighting may be a fake does not mean that they all are. \*\* Unless you provide some positive evidence to support the eyewitness accounts, they pretty much go into the dustbin of history. There are eyewitness accounts of alien abductions, time travel, angels, vampires, levitation, telekinesis, etc. Eyewitness accounts _without supporting physical evidence_ does not make for a strong case, regardless of how many eyewitnesses there are. So, provide us with one piece of physical evidence and people will take your claims seriously enough to investigate. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/129 "2003-12-22T17:23:06Z")
Did these beings happen to say what _kind_ of energy they were made of or did you justtake their word for it? If they are made of energy why can they not be detected by prosaic empirical methods? Personal assertions about sightings do not amount to proof no matter how many people claim to to see stuff. Hallucinations are very common and lying is even more common. Scientific method does not allow for such weak and untestable evidence to even be considered, especially when what is being asserted contradicts the laws of physics. Show me a ghost which can be detected empirically. I have no use for unsupported assertions. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/130 "2003-12-22T17:31:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handsomeharold \* > There are literally thousands of eyewitness accounts – you cannot ignore them out of existence. What **Telemark** said. We may not ignore them, but we can discount them. If each eyewitness account is incorrect, shear volume doesn’t make them any more correct. > [@](#): > > The fact that one such sighting may be a fake does not mean that they all are. The fact that one sighting may be fake does not make the others any more real, either. To accept any, you must examine each. And since the postulate here is of a supernatural nature, each must be examined much more closely than, say, a claim that you had a burger for lunch. Quantity does not trump quality. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/131 "2003-12-22T17:56:36Z")
> [@](#): > > but in the 12 years of living in this house, of occasionally being alone in it, of staying up late on many, many occasions, I have yet to see or hear anything that I feel was evidence of a ghost. Everybody knows that you won’t see ghosts (or aliens or psychopathic killers) unless: -it’s night -it’s thundering and lightning outside -all of the elctricity has mysterious been cut, and -you have stripped to your underwear. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/132 "2003-12-22T19:35:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bizzwire \* > \*\*Everybody knows that you won’t see ghosts (or aliens or psychopathic killers) unless: > -it’s night > -it’s thundering and lightning outside > -all of the elctricity has mysterious been cut, and > -you have stripped to your underwear. \*\* You forgot the part about having sex. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/133 "2003-12-22T20:40:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eburacum45 \* > \*\*If I might just interpose for a moment… > the video is online here; > [http://mysite.freeserve.com/gamesmastervze/bxb/ghost.gif](http://mysite.freeserve.com/gamesmastervze/bxb/ghost.gif) > > er… > looks strangely wobbly for a surveillance camera… > if pushed I would suggest it was actually taken on a digital handheld camera of some sort. \*\* Weeeelll… As a security camera expert, the shaking doesn’t mean much. A crappy mounting job in a windy area could do it, as well as bad bolts holding the housing still. Would you believe that many camera housings don’t come with stainless steel bolts? Many of them are rusted to hell within a year. Rusted bolts don’t hold so well. There are other possiblities as well, but that’s the most likely. As for the digital camera part, no need. Things like an Axis 2400 video server convert CCTV to digital. That’s what they’re FOR. Beyond that, it seems like a guy in a costume to me. The only “ghostly” part to me is the doors opening before the guy got there. But that could be because we’re looking at the middle of a sequence or something. -Joe, expurt ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/134 "2003-12-22T21:00:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blake \* > \*\*And anyway I have identified at least two fallacies: an argument from ignorance and a non-sequitur. There are at least 10 others in Chicksdigscars’ posts so far : argument from authority, argument ad numerum, argumentum ad populum, argument from assertion/circular argument, equivocation, strawman, amphiboly, anecdotal evidence, Non causa pro causa and red herring. > > But if she can’t understand why debates need either facts or reason she is unlikely to understand why logical fallacies can’t be employed. \*\* Holy cow! you just forgot to add at the end; “Who´s your daddy!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Flash-57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/839c29/32.png) [@Flash-57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flash-57)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/135 "2003-12-22T22:18:28Z")
\> I think that skepticism prevents them from seeing ghosts. How so? If I don’t believe the bars of my cell are real, I’m not going to be able to walk on through them. If I don’t believe that the sun will come up tomorrow, I won’t be prevented from seeing it when it happens. Even if I believe that cookies aren’t fattening, I’m still gonna have to go on a diet. Belief should have nothing to do with whether or not a person can see real events. And if it does, that would only go towards proving that the events only exist within the mind. ---
**Author:** ![Flash-57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/839c29/32.png) [@Flash-57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flash-57)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/136 "2003-12-22T22:29:18Z")
\> What the guy is doing in the tape looks alot like someone who is opening \> and closing a fire door in order to turn off an alarm. According to news reports, that particular firedoor had been opened many times before this video was taken. I want to see video footage from the other times that the door had been opened and left open. Is it usualy some guy going out for a smoke? Does the door usually open up on its own? And, has the door opened up since the tapes have been played on the news? Why hasn’t better video equipment been trained on the door now that we “know” that a ghost opens it regularly? It seems like the perfect opportunity to properly catch a ghost on tape, since we know his M.O. Just set up a good camera, a couple of feet from the door and let the tape roll. Come back in six hours and see if the door is open. If not, rewind the tape and try again until the door is found to be open. Then, watch the tape. More investigation, please. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/137 "2003-12-22T23:22:22Z")
I just watched the video (thanks for the link!) and I don’t see anything spectacular about it. The person’s wearing a costume, which is unusual, but not extraordinary, and the person closes some doors. IF this was a ghost, I find this unusual for a few reasons (based on my knowledge of ghosts at least): 1. Ghosts are incorporeal-how did it touch the door? 2. The doors are somewhat modern, to me at least. Ghosts (at least AFAIK) live in their ‘period’ right? Going about some occurance over and over again. If this is the case, which it may not be (but then again, I don’t believe in ghosts, so…), then why would a couple centuries old ghost be closing a modern door? ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/138 "2003-12-23T00:43:07Z")
For the sake of playing Devil’s Advocate, someone ought to say that point 1 isn’t strictly correct – _poltergeists_ supposedly move objects around, so that could include opening and closing doors. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/139 "2003-12-23T00:47:01Z")
> [@](#): > > I think that skepticism prevents them from seeing ghosts. While an inanimate camera can see them. How can that work? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/140 "2003-12-23T00:48:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\*For the sake of playing Devil’s Advocate, someone ought to say that point 1 isn’t strictly correct – _poltergeists_ supposedly move objects around, so that could include opening and closing doors. \*\* But I thought you couldn’t _see_ poltergeists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158.md?page=8)