# Ghost Sighting On Tape **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2003, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158 "2003-12-20T11:28:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/161 "2003-12-23T03:46:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chicksdigscars \* > **I guess Blake likes beating a dead horse because this horse is dead. He said “The fact that no evidence exists against ghosts does not support chicksdigscars’ extraordinary assertion that they do exist.” I never said it did, honey.** Yes you did. You said you “knew” ghosts were real because you had “seen” them. Hallucinating ghosts does not equal knowledge. > [@](#): > > **As for the lack of positive evidence, I have some thoughts but I choose not to share them with you because I do not have the time to find references for them.** If you’re not going to back up your absurd assertions then please refrain from making them in this forum. Can you even define exactly what a “ghost” _is_? I didn’t think so. Why would you enter a debate if you have nothing to contribute, either factually or argumentatively? > [@](#): > > \*\*In case anyone hadn’t noticed, Christmas is a few days away. Oh, I forgot, you all here must be athiests since you insist on concrete proof of the existence of spiritual beings. \*\* We insist on concrete proof because we are trying to _fight ignorance_. You hurl that “atheist” charge like you think you’re making a point. A lot of us _are_ atheists or agnostics but not all of us. Even the ones who do believe in God would not try to assert as fact that “God exists” in a debate thread, though. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/162 "2003-12-23T03:51:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chicksdigscars \* > **If you are not an athiest and you believe in God, how do you explain the Holy Spirit?** So you are saying that the Holy Spirit is a ghost? As in some dead person’s spirit? What is your basis for that? It seems to me that the Holy spirit is considered something unique and non-duplicated, just like God is considered to be. Thus, the Holy Spirit cannot be used as a template for believing in ghosts any more than God can be used as a template for believing in Zeus. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/163 "2003-12-23T03:54:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chicksdigscars \* > If you are not an athiest and you believe in God, how do you explain the Holy Spirit? If you are not willing to believe that ghosts exists, how do you explain your belief in God? These are also valid questions, which is why I said that you must be athiests if you continue to question the existence of ghosts. Sure you find tons of “evidence” in the Bible for the existence of God. Is that enough for you to believe in God? I am not an atheist, although I find them much easier to debate with, than a “believer”.🙂 I believe in G-d. The Holy Spirit is not a ghost as in Booo waaaa. IMHO it is just a remnant, a reminder of G-d’s presence. It is a feeling not a spooky looking creature. I absolutely question the existence of ghosts. If I try to make factual claims about G-d here in GD, instead of just stating that it is my personal belief; I will get busted by the same people who called you on your ghosts. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/164 "2003-12-23T03:54:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chicksdigscars \* > **Well, I would have given you an opinion and that may have satisfied you, Meatros, but you know if I didn’t have references to back everything up, certain individuals would have jumped all over me. I don’t expect you to believe what I believe.** If you don’t want to be challenged, stay out of the debate forum. You seem shocked that people aren’t just swallowing your assertions whole. If you’re so confident that yopu’re right then make an argument that can’t be so effortlessly refuted as what you’ve presented so far. > [@](#): > > \*\*If you are not an athiest and you believe in God, how do you explain the Holy Spirit? If you are not willing to believe that ghosts exists, how do you explain your belief in God? These are also valid questions, which is why I said that you must be athiests if you continue to question the existence of ghosts. Sure you find tons of “evidence” in the Bible for the existence of God. Is that enough for you to believe in God? \*\* I don’t believe in God or “Holy Spirits.” There’s no inconsistency on my part. The Bible is evidence of nothing, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/165 "2003-12-23T03:58:09Z")
To add on to what **IWLN** said, there is a world of difference between “I know” and “I believe.” We end to leave “I believe” alone because it is unfalsifiable and does not lend itself to factual debate. Anything you assert as _fact_ is fair game. ---
**Author:** ![chicksdigscars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@chicksdigscars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicksdigscars)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/166 "2003-12-23T04:01:32Z")
Jesus was a person. He died. He was resurrected. He is his ghost. If you can’t debate the existence of God in this debate, then what are you doing debating the existence of ghosts? I said before: I guess Blake likes beating a dead horse because this horse is dead. He said “The fact that no evidence exists against ghosts does not support chicksdigscars’ extraordinary assertion that they do exist.” I never said it did, honey. Read that again. The fact that no evidence exists against ghosts does not support chicksdigscars’ extraordinary assertion that they do exist. I never said that the LACK of evidence against ghosts proved their existence. I said I saw ghosts. ---
**Author:** ![chicksdigscars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@chicksdigscars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicksdigscars)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/167 "2003-12-23T04:11:30Z")
And for the record, IWLN suggested only one definition of ghost. Why can’t all ghosts be remnants of their owner’s former presence? Someone asked for a definition of ghosts. That is my definition: remnant of the former owner’s presence. Not the “BOO” kind of ghosts that IWLN referred to. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/168 "2003-12-23T04:12:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Jesus was a person. Possibly. > [@](#): > > He died. If he did live, then yes. > [@](#): > > He was resurrected. You’re not seriously thinking this is just going to be accepted, are you? We’re back to where we were with the ghosts. ---
**Author:** ![chicksdigscars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@chicksdigscars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicksdigscars)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/169 "2003-12-23T04:16:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe Random \* > \*\*So you are saying that the Holy Spirit is a ghost? As in some dead person’s spirit? What is your basis for that? It seems to me that the Holy spirit is considered something unique and non-duplicated, just like God is considered to be. Thus, the Holy Spirit cannot be used as a template for believing in ghosts any more than God can be used as a template for believing in Zeus. \*\* DUH!! To John Mace. I once again thought I was offering a rebuttal to Joe Random when he said that the Holy Spirit was just “some dead person’s ghost.” ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/170 "2003-12-23T04:25:25Z")
> [@](#): > > The fact that no evidence exists against ghosts does not support chicksdigscars’ extraordinary assertion that they do exist. So what is the relevance of the fact that no evidence exists against ghosts? Why mention it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/171 "2003-12-23T04:30:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chicksdigscars \* > \*\*And for the record, IWLN suggested only one definition of ghost. Why can’t all ghosts be remnants of their owner’s former presence? Someone asked for a definition of ghosts. That is my definition: remnant of the former owner’s presence. Not the “BOO” kind of ghosts that IWLN referred to. \*\* After you’re done proving Jesus was “resurrected” why don’t you explain exactly what this “remnant” consists of? What is it _made_ of. Where is it located in the human body? What physical properties does it possess? You haven’t really defined anything you just gave it a different name. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/172 "2003-12-23T04:33:28Z")
> [@](#): > > **I never said that the LACK of evidence against ghosts proved their existence. I said I saw ghosts.** How do you know that what you “saw” was not a hallucination? How do you know that it was a “remnant” of some dead person? How do _we_ know that you’re not just making shit up? ---
**Author:** ![chicksdigscars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@chicksdigscars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chicksdigscars)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/173 "2003-12-23T04:38:56Z")
Sure, I will do something that scholars have been trying to do for thousands of years. And when I am done proving Jesus was resurrected, I will find a cure for cancer. I am sure there are others who will happily quote Scripture to show that Jesus was resurrected, but it will go over your head. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/174 "2003-12-23T05:02:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chicksdigscars \* > \*\*Sure, I will do something that scholars have been trying to do for thousands of years. And when I am done proving Jesus was resurrected, I will find a cure for cancer. > > I am sure there are others who will happily quote Scripture to show that Jesus was resurrected, but it will go over your head. \*\* Uh, someone is going to have to prove the Bible is factual first. Could you start with cancer, then Jesus?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/175 "2003-12-23T05:12:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chicksdigscars \* > \*\*I once again thought I was offering a rebuttal to Joe Random when he said that the Holy Spirit was just “some dead person’s ghost.” \*\* I asked if you believed that, not that I thought it was true. (In reality, I believe in neither ghosts nor the Holy Spirit). > [@](#): > > **If you are not willing to believe that ghosts exists, how do you explain your belief in God?** What does one have to do with the other? Are you implying that, if one believes in God, one must believe in _everything_? I’m honestly not following your line of reasoning. At first, I thought that you were implying that the Holy Spirit was a form of ghost, and thus believing in the HS would require you to believe in ghosts in general. Is that what you were getting at? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/176 "2003-12-23T05:13:37Z")
Look, **cdc** , even a fellow Christian is rolling her eyes at you over that one. I am quite well informed about the Bible, probably much better than you would expect from a Godless agnostic. The Bible is not proof, though. Let’s leave aside the resurrection thing (I assure you, it can’t be proven). Let’s just try to nail down your definition of a “remnant.” What is it made of? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/177 "2003-12-23T05:18:50Z")
She just doesn’t get it does she? chicksdigscars you can not support your assertion that ghosts exist with a source like the Bible that is at least as dubious as the assertion itself. ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/178 "2003-12-23T05:47:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > Look, **cdc** , even a fellow Christian is rolling her eyes at you over that one. Okay **DtC** , take **that** back\*\*!\*\* The only true part of your statement is that I’m rolling my eyes. The rest I’m denying.(ouch!) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/179 "2003-12-23T05:55:09Z")
Sorry, **IWLN**. I didn’t realize how far you had gone in your recent reevaluations of your beliefs. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![IWLN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5ac83/32.png) [@IWLN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IWLN)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158/180 "2003-12-23T06:10:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*Sorry, **IWLN**. I didn’t realize how far you had gone in your recent reevaluations of your beliefs. 🙂 \*\* Me neither. 😕 But yes, it’s true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghost-sighting-on-tape/220158.md?page=10)