# Ghostbusters plot hole - J Edgar Hoover as the destructor?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [March 11, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768 "2015-03-11T17:49:45Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Scougs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scougs)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/1 "2015-03-11T17:49:45Z")
This has been bugging me for years.
In the climactic scene, Gozer says “Choose the form of the Destructor”.
Peter twigs, and explains to the others saying “If we think of J Edgar Hoover, then J Edgar Hoover will come and destroy us”.
So surely he’s just thought of J Edgar Hoover, who therefore should have trumped the Stay Puft Marshmallow man as the form of the destructor?
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### Author:  [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/2 "2015-03-11T17:55:44Z")
I’m going to waffle and say as soon as Gozer said Destructor, Aykroyd reflexively thought of the SPMM before Murray could explain it. Lame I know.
And BTW, do you think they were going to use the Michelin Man and had to settle for SPMM?
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/3 "2015-03-11T18:13:38Z")
I figure Gozer was being charitable and waited for them to be ready to choose their destructor, rather than jumping on whatever they thought of without them fully understanding the demand.
Even though they’re not gods, you wouldn’t want them to incur the indignity of being destroyed by a ham sandwich just because one of them was a bit peckish.
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### Author:  [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/4 "2015-03-11T18:20:59Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#):
>
> I figure Gozer was being charitable and waited for them to be ready to choose their destructor, rather than jumping on whatever they thought of without them fully understanding the demand.
>
> Even though they’re not gods, you wouldn’t want them to incur the indignity of being destroyed by a ham sandwich just because one of them was a bit peckish.
Now, wait just a minute–Ham Sandwich the Destroyer is pretty darn funny in itself.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/5 "2015-03-11T18:22:08Z")
Ray has a line a bit after that:
“I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!”
So it wasn’t just a matter of, “name pops in your head, Gozer becomes that form.” Ray actually put some (admittedly not much) thought into the question, “Who would make the best form for the Destructor?”
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### Author:  [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/6 "2015-03-11T18:53:08Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> So it wasn’t just a matter of, “name pops in your head, Gozer becomes that form.” Ray actually put some (admittedly not much) thought into the question, “Who would make the best form for the Destructor?”
Right. The rest of them were still actively trying _not_ to choose. Ray recognized the futility of that, and made a deliberate choice while trying to maximize their chance of surviving it. (Venkman, with his psychology degree, should have realized that trying not to think of anything was futile, too, but he’s Venkman. He never studied.)
Ray catches flack for it, but he actually made the right tactical decision. Gozer was inevitably going to manifest as something, and if they left it to subconscious impulse, the chosen form would likely have been whatever horrified one of them the most–specifically because they were trying not to think of it. It’s possible that the result would have been frightening enough to terrify them into complete inaction. As it was, despite Egon’s comment, they were not terrified beyond thought or action–in part because one obvious course (“Roast him!”) suggested itself. That action was unsuccessful, but it got them moving and thinking.
Ray’s choice, foolish as it seems, may well have saved them.
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### Author:  [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/7 "2015-03-11T19:03:37Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#):
>
> And BTW, do you think they were going to use the Michelin Man and had to settle for SPMM?
I heard that the original intention was to use the Pillsbury dough boy but they could not get permission from the corporation and invented their own mascot, the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/8 "2015-03-11T19:03:57Z")
Incidentally, am I the only one who didn’t realize until well into adulthood that Stay-Puft Marshmallows and the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man were invented entirely for this movie? I’d have sworn they were a real brand/mascot before then.
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### Author:  [@Scougs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scougs)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/9 "2015-03-11T19:04:58Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> Ray has a line a bit after that:
>
> “I tried to think of the most harmless thing. Something I loved from my childhood. Something that could never ever possibly destroy us. Mr. Stay Puft!”
>
> So it wasn’t just a matter of, “name pops in your head, Gozer becomes that form.” Ray actually put some (admittedly not much) thought into the question, “Who would make the best form for the Destructor?”
This makes some kind of sense. Although what Venkman says does make it sound like anything that popped into your head could be construed as a choice. I suppose it’s up to Gozer, really.
I love the fact you can have a good debate on the SDMB about the most trivial of annoyances.
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### Author:  [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/10 "2015-03-11T19:29:16Z")
> [@AHunter3](#):
>
> I heard that the original intention was to use the Pillsbury dough boy but they could not get permission from the corporation and invented their own mascot, the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man.
That DOES make more sense (what does that say about me, that I thought of Michelin before Pillsbury?); if they had blasted the Dough-boy in the belly with their accelerators, would he have giggled them to death?
> [@Scougs](#):
>
> This makes some kind of sense. Although what Venkman says does make it sound like anything that popped into your head could be construed as a choice. I suppose it’s up to Gozer, really.
>
> I love the fact you can have a good debate on the SDMB about the most trivial of annoyances.
Trivial? How dare you, sir. 🙂 Who does your taxes?
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### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/11 "2015-03-11T19:31:08Z")
Perhaps even Gozer was disgusted by the form of J. Edgar Hoover.
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### Author:  [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/12 "2015-03-11T19:33:47Z")
But you have to admit that it would have been interesting to have it be Hoover–in a dress, of course.
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### Author:  [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/13 "2015-03-11T19:40:25Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> Incidentally, am I the only one who didn’t realize until well into adulthood that Stay-Puft Marshmallows and the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man were invented entirely for this movie? I’d have sworn they were a real brand/mascot before then.
It was well into adulthood before I noticed that Dana actually has a bag of stay-pufts in her grocery bag earlier in the movie.
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### Author:  [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/14 "2015-03-11T19:42:19Z")
This is the only time even remotely relevant enough to post this:
My Call of Duty profile is Mr Stay-Puft. I get singled out for destruction quite often.
ETA: **Miller**? You’re probably thinking of Jet-puft marshmallows.
Ninja’d by **Push You Down** on the bag of marshmallows.
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/15 "2015-03-11T21:58:14Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#):
>
> ETA: **Miller**? You’re probably thinking of Jet-puft marshmallows.
They also used the Pillsburdy Doughboy and the Michelin Man as references, I think. So the idea of a big white, fluffy product mascot wasn’t entirely foreign.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [March 11, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/16 "2015-03-11T22:09:11Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> Incidentally, am I the only one who didn’t realize until well into adulthood that Stay-Puft Marshmallows and the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man were invented entirely for this movie? I’d have sworn they were a real brand/mascot before then.
I’d have sworn they were, too, UNTIL JUST NOW!
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### Author:  [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/17 "2015-03-12T01:30:29Z")
Actually, when I was a kid I thought the Michelin Man and the Stay-Puft man were one in the same.
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### Author:  [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/18 "2015-03-12T02:31:48Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#):
>
> It was well into adulthood before I noticed that Dana actually has a bag of stay-pufts in her grocery bag earlier in the movie.
Hey, is that a “push,”–a plot device? Did Ray see those (maybe out of the corner of his eye?) on the counter as they were heading up the stairs and that put the image in his head?
That would be neat.
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### Author:  [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2015, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/19 "2015-03-12T04:50:43Z")
Guys, the Michelin Man’s name is Bibendum and he was an even more surreal horror than you might’ve known him for.
> **[BIBENDUM The Mel Birnkrant Collection](http://melbirnkrant.com/collection/page50.html)**
>
> BIBENDUM the MICHELIN TIRE MAN, Mel Birnkrant takes us on a GUIDED TOUR of his legendary COLLECTION of MICKEY MOUSE and COMIC CHARACTERS.
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### Author:  [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2015, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghostbusters-plot-hole-j-edgar-hoover-as-the-destructor/714768/20 "2015-03-12T05:01:53Z")
> [@Trancephalic](#):
>
> Guys, the Michelin Man’s name is Bibendum and he was an even more surreal horror than you might’ve known him for.
>
> [BIBENDUM The Mel Birnkrant Collection](http://melbirnkrant.com/collection/page50.html)
That was way beyond cool, thanks! (I love the poster where the dame is waving her hankie at the other bicyclist–So long, loser, I’m running off with the fat tire man.)
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