# Ghosts.What is up? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2016, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868 "2016-06-20T02:10:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/21 "2016-06-20T10:40:32Z")
> [@duncs](#): > > Over 100 billion humans have ever lived and they have all died. If there were ghosts, we would be seeing them everywhere, all the time And of the billions who died, not one came back to complain ! ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/22 "2016-06-20T12:05:16Z")
I liken ghost sightings to UFO sightings. If something like 90%\* of them can be easily explained as mundane phenomena, then the remaining 10% are surely mundane but we don’t have enough info to say what particular phenomenon it is in each case. If anything ghosts are easier. Hallucinations and fiction are probably even more common. - Or whatever high percentage it might be. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/23 "2016-06-20T12:16:37Z")
[Where ghost hunters fall down.](http://www.csicop.org/si/show/ghost-hunting_mistakes_science_and_pseudoscience_in_ghost_investigations) > [@Flare4roach](#): > > However, If just ONE of these reports is correct then there is such a thing as ghosts, right? Trouble is, not one of the myriad ghost reports has been substantiated. So, fail. While it’s a rambling and at times boring book, “The Witch Of Lime Street” cites good examples of how deception and credulity combine to create ghost stories. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/24 "2016-06-20T12:45:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You’re taking logic down the wrong path. The question you should be asking is this: If ghosts exist, why isn’t there any objective evidence of their existence? (And people thinking they encountered a ghost isn’t objective evidence.) Evidence is the difference between believing in the existence of unicorns and believing in the existence of zebras. Hey, unicorns exist. I have seen one in the flesh. A few years ago, the Barnum and Bailey circus had a live unicorn in its act. They created it by transplanting the horn buds of a baby goat so that as the goat and his horns grew, they twisted together into a single horn in the center of the animal’s forehead. It looked quite good. Really, it was indisputably a unicorn. They got a lot of flack from PETA and the like over it, and I haven’t been to the circus in years, so I have no idea if they are still doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/25 "2016-06-20T13:02:45Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > … UFO’s are only attracted by people with no camera skills … … and interesting anuses for probing. ---
**Author:** ![Shearer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/57b2e6/32.png) [@Shearer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shearer)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/26 "2016-06-20T13:28:07Z")
> [@duncs](#): > > Over 100 billion humans have ever lived and they have all died. If there were ghosts, we would be seeing them everywhere, all the time And what about all the animal ghosts? ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/27 "2016-06-20T13:36:13Z")
Feynman made the point well in response to UFOers, but the principle is the same. UFOers would say (as the OP does) “Look, I accept that most supposed UFO sightings are Venus or weather balloons or other easily explained phenomena. But the remnant, the hard core that defy explanation, they must be the real deal, right?” Feynman’s response: “How many armed robberies occur in the US every year? Tens of thousands? More? And in how many of those cases is there insufficient evidence to arrest anyone? 10%? 20%? Doesn’t mean aliens did them.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/28 "2016-06-20T14:49:37Z")
> [@Flare4roach](#): > > I’ve never seen one so I can’t verify or preach to their existence. If I _had_ seen one, I still wouldn’t be able to verify their existence. How would I know that what I saw wasn’t my mind/senses/imagination, or another person, playing tricks on me? > [@Trinopus](#): > > Nope. No worthwhile evidence, and no working model. > > At least with Bigfoot, there’s a workable model. Big animal. But with ghosts, you can’t even explain how they’re supposed to work. True, but that cuts both ways. If we don’t know, or have an idea, of how they’re supposed to “work,” it’s harder to definitively rule them out. If we don’t know what kind of evidence there _would_ be if ghosts did exist, we can’t say we’ve looked for but didn’t find what we should have found if there were ghosts. > [@flatlined](#): > > I’m quite sure that if ghosts existed, evidence would have been found by now. And what would that evidence be? I don’t know. I think the OP is suggesting that “the overwhelming number of reports” _is_ evidence. But I agree with **Chronos** that it’s more likely evidence for something about human nature than evidence for the actual existence of ghosts. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/29 "2016-06-20T16:13:07Z")
> [@Shearer](#): > > And what about all the animal ghosts? And plant ghosts. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/30 "2016-06-20T16:43:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And plant ghosts. And \ fungal ghosts. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/31 "2016-06-20T16:50:27Z")
> [@duncs](#): > > Over 100 billion humans have ever lived and they have all died. If there were ghosts, we would be seeing them everywhere, all the time There are a lot of good reasons to not believe in ghosts, but I’m not sure this is one. It’s easily explained by whatever hand-waving someone wants to offer like saying that only a tiny percentage of people become ghosts, that only a tiny percentage are seen, that ghosts fade out or move on over time, etc. The bottom line is that people need to unlearn “seeing is believing.” Not only are our immediate perceptions subject to many kinds of errors, but our memories of them can be erased, changed and/or created over time. If there was anything we should keep repeating over and over to our kids, it should be “Never trust your own senses or your own memory. Measure, record and verify, that’s believing.” ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/32 "2016-06-20T16:59:14Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Stemming perhaps from an instinctive fear of death and an inbuilt ability to see patterns in random noise. [Agent detection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_detection) probably figures into it, too. We have a built-in tendency to suspect that there’s an intellect responsible for observed phenomena. Random thud/crack from somewhere else in the house late at night? To hell with thermal expansion/contraction, this place is _haunted!!!_ ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/33 "2016-06-20T17:17:17Z")
> [@duncs](#): > > Over 100 billion humans have ever lived and they have all died. If there were ghosts, we would be seeing them everywhere, all the time > [@dracoi](#): > > There are a lot of good reasons to not believe in ghosts, but I’m not sure this is one. It’s easily explained by whatever hand-waving someone wants to offer like saying that only a tiny percentage of people become ghosts, that only a tiny percentage are seen, that ghosts fade out or move on over time, etc. I agree: this is a Straw Ghost argument. I don’t remember anyone ever claiming that _everyone_ who dies becomes (or comes back as, or engenders) a ghost. Common notions I’ve seen in fiction and folklore are that ghosts happen when someone dies in a particularly traumatic way, or with “unfinished business,” or otherwise under special circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/34 "2016-06-20T17:29:28Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Five percent of SDMB posters who responded to a poll said [they had seen a ghost.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=625053) Maybe my maths is way out, but the line; _I have never had any of the above experiences. 102 65.81%_ would dispute 5% having had any of those experiences, wouldn’t it? If so, then with around 35% of respondents saying they have had one or more of the above experiences, it’s much more common than is being laid out here. Of course, there’s still no absolute, hard and fast, scientific evidence to back up a single one of the (probably) millions of encounters experienced by humanity, so they must all be either mistaken, fakers or off their rockers :dubious: we all know labelling a large mass of people idiots or mad because of their beliefs does the world a power of good. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/35 "2016-06-20T18:02:29Z")
> [@JustinC](#): > > Maybe my maths is way out, but the line; > > _I have never had any of the above experiences. 102 65.81%_ > > would dispute 5% having had any of those experiences, wouldn’t it? > > If so, then with around 35% of respondents saying they have had one or more of the above experiences, it’s much more common than is being laid out here. I was using the the 5% figure for those who saw a ghost only. Other choices included religious experiences, that do not specifically address the existence of ghosts. Lots of people who believe in god don’t believe in the apparitions popularly referred to as “ghosts”. ---
**Author:** ![Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fool\_in\_the\_Rain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fool_in_the_Rain)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/36 "2016-06-20T18:11:58Z")
I think Mr. Dickens has already given us the answer: > [@](#): > > “You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato. There’s more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!” ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/37 "2016-06-20T18:48:50Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I was using the the 5% figure for those who saw a ghost only. Other choices included religious experiences, that do not specifically address the existence of ghosts. Lots of people who believe in god don’t believe in the apparitions popularly referred to as “ghosts”. Then I was right! My maths is way out:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/38 "2016-06-20T18:56:51Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I agree: this is a Straw Ghost argument. > > I don’t remember anyone ever claiming that _everyone_ who dies becomes (or comes back as, or engenders) a ghost. Common notions I’ve seen in fiction and folklore are that ghosts happen when someone dies in a particularly traumatic way, or with “unfinished business,” or otherwise under special circumstances. Then victims of serial killers should become ghosts. Not to mention the victims of both A-bombs. But I’ve never heard of Jeffrey Dahmer’s victims being seen. Or, how haunted is Hiroshima? Chernobyl? The Place de la Concorde should be littered with ghosts from the Revolution. Sadly, I didn’t see any when I was there. The thing is, ghosts are whatever you want them to be. I’ve also thought about it from the other side, if you will. Why would I become a ghost, and if I did, what would I do? Would I haunt someplace, moaning sadly and knocking things around? That sounds like a dickish thing to do. (I’m sure living people do that, but no one I know would while alive, so why should they when dead?) Or would I appear to my children, smile warmly, say I love them and I’m happy, then disappear? What would be the sense in that? My kids know that I’d be more likely to give them advice than just say “I’m happy and at peace.” The “rules” for ghosts are the same for Yeti, Bigfoot, Nessie, dragons, etc. Whatever suits the situation. Need vampires to sparkle? Just write 'em that way. Want to explain Bigfoot as a shapeshifting extra-dimensional being? Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868/39 "2016-06-20T20:08:38Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > The thing is, ghosts are whatever you want them to be. If you’re writing fiction, this is correct. In our real world, ghosts probably don’t exist (at least, that’s my own working hypothesis); but if we want to seriously consider or investigate the possibility that they do, we can’t decide for ourselves ahead of time, or make assumptions about, exactly what they are or what rules they follow. At least not unless we want to limit our investigation to entities that follow precisely those rules. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ghosts-what-is-up/757868.md?page=1)