# 'Gift Horse' is literal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 24, 2000, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584 "2000-08-24T14:28:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hedgemeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/77aa72/32.png) [@Hedgemeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hedgemeister)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/1 "2000-08-24T14:28:09Z")
When I was young, I learned that ‘Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth’ was a subtle reference to the Trojan Horse ruse perpetrated by the Greeks wherein Greek soldiers hidden in a giant horse sculpture given to Troy as a gift later jumped out and killed a bunch of Trojans, thereby winning the war for Greece. Where could I have come up with this erroneous idea? ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/2 "2000-08-24T15:01:17Z")
The maibag item you are commenting on is [What’s the origin of “Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth”?](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mgifthorse.html) Someone will be along to give the Latin original, but there is a saying roughly “Beware of Greeks even when they come bearing gifts” which has an obvious horsey feel to it. Perhaps the “gift horse” saying caught on as counterpoint. Alternatively there is the _Red Dwarf version_: “Beware of Trojans, they’re complete smegheads.” The “gift horse” saying is only good advice if the value of the gift can _at worst_ be nothing: if the gift is poisoned or otherwise manipulative it is bad advice. picmr ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/3 "2000-08-24T16:49:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by picmr \* > Someone will be along to give the Latin original Timeo Danaos, et dona ferentes. ---
**Author:** ![MJH2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@MJH2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJH2)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/4 "2000-08-24T18:01:29Z")
Could someone give me the original quote of “Beware Greeks bearing gifts” in Greek? Assuming the line is from “The Iliad” Not strange that someone in Hedgemeister’s past told him that this phrase was the root of the “gift horse” aphorism. I had someone once insist to me that E=mc2 (that’s “c-squared”) represents Einstein’s theory of relativity – because that’s what his teacher told him. Which leads us to another saying: “A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/5 "2000-08-24T20:05:22Z")
Actually, the quote isn’t originally from _The Iliad_ (Homer only briefly mentions the Horse, and then only in a flashback in _The Odyssy_), but from Virgil’s _Aeneid_, which was basically a straight rip-off of Homer, in an attempt to prove that the Romans were just as good as those stinkin’ Greeks. As such, Latin is, indeed, the original language, and not having the text here, I’ll trust that Arnold has the quote right: I do trust Swiss bearing links (or other information). ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/6 "2000-08-25T12:53:19Z")
I’ve said before, but it’s worth repeating, that, relating to the Trojan Horse, a better expression would have been “Beware of gifts bearing Greeks.” ---
**Author:** ![G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c67d28/32.png) [@G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.B.H.Hornswoggler)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/7 "2000-08-25T13:08:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CKDextHavn \* > \*\*I’ve said before, but it’s worth repeating, that, relating to the Trojan Horse, a better expression would have been “Beware of gifts bearing Greeks.” \*\* Or, since the Horse was towed by the Greeks to the gates of Troy, “Beware of Greeks bearing gifts bearing Greeks.” Of course, the _real_ problem was that the infrahorse Greeks weren’t friendly, so, for a fully specific saying, you’d want “Beware of Greeks bearing gifts bearing Greeks bearing swords.” I think I’ll go lie down now. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/8 "2000-08-25T20:52:00Z")
So if technically the horse was a gift from the Greeks, why is it called the _Trojan_ horse? Shouldn’t it be the Greek horse? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2000, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/9 "2000-08-25T21:38:20Z")
Because it was built and used in Troy, or at least, just outside Troy, in the Trojan war. What bugs me, is the misappeletion of Helen of Sparta. What, just because some Trojan bastard kidnaps her for ten years, her place of birth and upbringing, and the nationality of her husband, King Agnememnon, don’t matter anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Fairy\_Princess\_Kitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df705f/32.png) [@Fairy\_Princess\_Kitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fairy_Princess_Kitty)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/10 "2000-09-01T04:57:13Z")
A science teacher once told me another possible explanation for that saying. You can tell quite a bit about a horse and its age by looking at its teeth. So if someone did give you a horse as a gift you should just take it instead of examining its teeth and saying it’s old or something because better an old horse than no horse at all. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2000, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/11 "2000-09-01T12:45:53Z")
Um, Kitty? I think that’s exactly what SDStaff Ken said in the original Mailbag Answer. We try to provide the links so that people can read the original Mailbag Answer and not repeat stuff that’s already been said. After all, repetition is … borrrring. So we try to provide the links so that people can read the original Mailbag Answer and not repeat stuff that’s already been said. ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2000, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/12 "2000-10-12T12:16:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*Because it was built and used in Troy, or at least, just outside Troy, in the Trojan war. What bugs me, is the misappeletion of Helen of Sparta. What, just because some Trojan bastard kidnaps her for ten years, her place of birth and upbringing, and the nationality of her husband, King Agnememnon, don’t matter anymore? \*\* Her choice, wasn’t it? Anyway, Chronos, what’s wrong with E=mc2 being representative of Einstein’s theory of relativity, as MJH2 said? ---
**Author:** ![G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c67d28/32.png) [@G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.B.H.Hornswoggler)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2000, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/13 "2000-10-12T12:22:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RM Mentock \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > > \*\*Because it was built and used in Troy, or at least, just outside Troy, in the Trojan war. What bugs me, is the misappeletion of Helen of Sparta. What, just because some Trojan bastard kidnaps her for ten years, her place of birth and upbringing, and the nationality of her husband, King Agnememnon, don’t matter anymore? \*\* > > Her choice, wasn’t it? > \*\* I’d hardly call being kidnapped a “choice.” ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2000, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/14 "2000-10-12T13:29:07Z")
Who knows whether she was kidnapped or whether the Greeks just _considered_ her to be kidnapped. Can’t trust **Homer** on this stuff anyway - anyone who keeps banging on about the “wine-red sea” is about as reliable as well, our **Homer** after a night on the fungi. Perhaps it was a Trojan monkey-butler. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2000, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/15 "2000-10-12T21:46:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Her choice, wasn’t it? Actually, in the associated mythology, the Gods got to mucking about with it - the whole thing started from the Judgement of Paris. So her choice might have been a bit, um, compelled. Capsule version: Eris, goddess of discord, wasn’t invited to a party, so she tossed a golden apple marked “for the fairest” into the shindig. Trojan prince Paris wound up choosing between 3 godesses to award the prize. Being Greek goddesses, all 3 simply bribed him with money, sex and power, respectively. Paris chose sex - in other words, the most desirable woman in the world would be his. Helen was the delivery on the promise. (I can’t remember the goddesses involved off the top of my head. I think Aphrodite was the “sex” bribe, which makes sense. In Paris’ shoes I’d have tried to figure out which one would protect me from the other two). The Robert Anton Wilson version is more entertaining. Kallisti. Hail Eris! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/16 "2000-10-13T02:38:56Z")
First off: The famous rest-energy equation E = mc[sup]2[/sup] is, in fact, derived from relativity, but it’s by no means all of it, or even the core of it. If I had to say that any equation (or set of equations, depending on how you write it) is representative of (special) relativity, it’s the Lorentz transformation. Secondly, in the Judgement of Paris: Aphrodite promised sex, Athena promised wisdom, and Hera promised power. Of course, as the Trojan War showed, Aphrodite was incapable of holding up to her end of the deal (the Greeks won Helen back, after all), and Hera would probably be powerless as well. And of course, the person who would choose Athena already has wisdom, so it’s a sucker bet all around. ---
**Author:** ![Fairy\_Princess\_Kitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df705f/32.png) [@Fairy\_Princess\_Kitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fairy_Princess_Kitty)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/17 "2000-10-13T07:01:45Z")
CKDextHavn, okay, being redundasnt is a bad thing I guess but you know I didn’t exaxctly have time to read the article, if it was mentioned above I’m sorry but if it wasn’t, then it’s not something I learned from the article. My 6th grade science teacher explained it to use while learning about dendrochronology. Kitty ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2000, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/18 "2000-10-13T13:53:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\* What bugs me, is the misappeletion of Helen of Sparta. What, just because some Trojan bastard kidnaps her for ten years, her place of birth and upbringing, and the nationality of her husband, King Agnememnon, don’t matter anymore? \*\* Actually, her husband was King Menelaus. Agnememnon (his brother) was married to her sister Clytemnestra…and their relationship was just as happy as Menelaus and Helen’s. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2000, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/19 "2000-10-14T03:40:40Z")
Thanks for the correction, **Captain Amazing**. My point was that it’s a bit unfair to refer to the native-born Queen of Sparta as being “of Troy”. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2000, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gift-horse-is-literal/30584/20 "2000-10-14T14:39:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*Thanks for the correction, **Captain Amazing**. My point was that it’s a bit unfair to refer to the native-born Queen of Sparta as being “of Troy”. \*\* Well, if she had stayed in Sparta, nobody probably would have heard of her…you take the publicity you can get, I guess.