''Gifted Children'' - Where Are You Now?

In My Humble Opinion
21

It seems that everyone on the SDMB was a gifted child, so it will come as no surprise when I say that I was one too. Reading aged 3, put up a year in school, hauled out of class by psychologists on a regular basis, was “the cleverest child in the school” at elementary school, my juvenile IQ was rated consistently above 140, was given extra coursework, and at age 12 was given more psych tests that rated me with “a musical ear equivalent to that of a university graduate”, whatever the hell that means. In short, I was a geeky little wanker.

I did zero work in the UK equivalent of high school - I understood most of the concepts instantly and got bored shitless in class, so began messing around and getting bad reports, but consistently high grades. I had a friend there who was even more gifted, and he and I used to goad each other into getting an A in attainment and an E in effort. Which we did. Our teachers hated that. My History teacher hated it so much he kicked me out of class, so I paid for my own History O-level, did no further study for a year, and got a B.

This all worked very well for me until about the age of 17, at which point in the British education system you can no longer rely on innate smarts, and actually have to do some studying too. It all started to fall apart. I have the attention span of a gnat on amphetamines. I did no study at all. I was incapable of applying myself in any way at all. But was suddenly confronted by the people I had formerly dismissed as drones, the ones who just got their heads down and worked hard rather than having any grand intuitive grasp of the subject, smashing me at every test, showing me up in class, and generally wiping the floor with me, academically.

I had achieved an A in Further Mathematics AS-level at 15, and on the strength of this and my O-level results, was put forward for six A-levels (the norm is three): Mathematics, Applied Mathematics and Mechanics, Mathematics and Statistics, Biology, Chemistry and Physics. Within a year I had dropped, or been kicked, out of four of the six classes, limped home after two years with low grades in Physics and Applied Mathematics. Stayed behind to take an English Literature A-level in one year, which I got. Then I went to drama school and even got kicked out of the academic part of that. I graduated, quit acting, took a job driving a van for a year, then spent the rest of my twenties and some of my early thirties travelling round the world getting high and drinking.

I do seem to be blessed with the gift of the gab, though, when it’s needed. Even during the wild years I managed to talk my way into a variety of jobs in various fields in which I had zero experience (journalism, advertising, graphic design, editing, marketing), and did a reasonable job in most. Over recent years I have progressed up the career ladder in my current field, and despite everything I’m doing pretty well professionally - I have a very well-paid job in upper-middle management, in a field I blagged my way into and have absolutely no training in, but picked up once in the job via interest, curiosity, and eventually necessity.

I’m bored shitless again though, and would gladly trade my good career for something I actually care about, and would, if my mortgage weren’t so high. Oh, and my personal life is a total fuck-up.

22

Um, I’m not really sure what the standard definition is for ‘‘gifted’’ children. It’s hard for me to reliably measure my own ability at that age–I moved 13 times before I turned ten, doesn’t exactly make for a stable and reliable set of data points. I can’t even remember finishing out a single year without interruption.

The only actual hard piece of evidence I have, which I am holding in my hand at just this moment, is the Woodcock-Johnson Pscyho-Educational Battery, which my grandmother, a special-ed teacher, administered to me when I was 5 years and 5 months old. I have no idea to whom this test is normally administered, and I don’t know how to interpret the numbers. The only explicit comment is ‘‘deficient in written language but advanced in all other areas.’’ While I would later become a pretty advanced writer, my writing on this test (such advanced words as ‘‘bee,’’ ‘‘seen,’’ ‘‘man,’’ ‘‘sixteen’’ and ‘‘table’’) at 5.5 years old is damn near illegible, and I write my ‘‘Ns’’ backward. It’s sort of funny that my one piece of data seems to contradict my whole narrative.

I feel like this conversation is just as much about perceived giftedness than it is about actual giftedness, and what that can do to you psychologically.

As I mentioned in the other thread, my mother was not unrealistic about my own abilities and sometimes downplayed them. She was reluctant to allow me to be treated differently by the school administration. She didn’t put much stock in raw academic ability, because she had been a high achiever herself, earned a degree in mechanical engineering, and was absolutely miserable at her job. There was no bribing or cajoling or pressuring in the grade department, and the answer to,

‘‘Mom, what should I be when I grow up?’’ was always,
‘‘Whatever makes you happy.’’

It was made clear early on that I was not expected to go to college and should only apply if it interested me.

In fact, when I brought home straight-A report cards, my parents would joke that my performance was ‘‘adequate.’’ They really didn’t give a shit whether I was the best or not. *I *was the only one who really bought into it–and trust me, I really bought into it. And I got more than a few lectures from my parents about how it’s not polite to act like a know-it-all.

My mother was also pretty emotionally abusive as I got older, so I realize it’s not fair to say that my crippling insecurity only came from having unreasonable performance expectations. A lot of the messages I got in my teen years were, ‘‘How can you be so smart and so stupid at the same time?’’ and ‘‘They all praise you at school, but they don’t realize what a lazy, irresponsible person you truly are,’’ etc. So it went from, ‘‘Yep, you’re really talented,’’ to ‘‘You’re so talented you’ve never had to work a day in your life and you have no character because everything comes easy to you. I hope someday someone really puts you in your place.’’ The most common expression I heard growing up wasn’t, ‘‘Ohh, you’re so gifted!’’ it was, ‘‘Jesus Christ! What the hell is wrong with you?’’

Try to reconcile ‘‘you’re gifted!’’ with ‘‘something is seriously wrong with you.’’ And then try to compensate for the latter with the former. It’s crazy-making.

23

Pole dancing? Wait, an editor? How you doin’? :smiley:

Anyway. Yeah, “gifted.” I went to special classes where we didn’t really do much of any importance that I recall and breezed through my usual classes without studying or even really thinking. In fact, the hardest year I had was when I decided to take regular English instead of Honors in my junior year and I wound up having such a difficult time keeping interest. It peaked during high school when I was selected for a Global Young Leaders Conference, theoretically prepping me to be a bigshot politician or corporate officer.

College kind of sucked for me, but not necessarily because I hadn’t learned how to study. I picked the wrong fields to study, and was disinterested and unmotivated. I switched majors midstream, hustled to get my diploma, and despite my best effort failed to get into a position teaching English in Japan.

With college tripping me up, I managed to find what I thought would be temporary work as a proofreader in a small internet business. I’ve been doing that job for 6 years now, without a clue as to how to move up in the world. Part of that’s due to the truncated sense of ambition college gave me, partly due to my Frankensteinesque education (part Business, part Linguistics), and partly due to having to put my life on hold to save a friend’s.

I’m making very little money given my education and experience, but it’s enough to live on for now, and I’m hoping I can wake that “gifted” part of me back up and move forward.

24

I work in a call center. Intelligence doesn’t mean much without drive.

25

Most definitions I’ve seen suggest that a kid’s IQ is either at least one or at least two standard diviations above normal (so an IQ of 115+ or 130+) both of which describe a whole lot of people who post here.

As for me, I got pulled out of class for the gifted and talented program as a kid, but wasn’t really pushed too hard to do more; mostly people were happy that I easily got As and high Bs in everything but math. I was a lot like other smart kids that I grew up with, because there weren’t other options (no gifted schools etc) in the area for kids like us.

I’m a classic under-achiever as an adult. Unlike a lot of people with English education degrees who don’t teach, I’m actually working with my degree and have been doing so for years, but it’s a non-profit so you can imagine that it’s not been good for my bank account and the job has no benefits. And while I write like I’ve always wanted to, I never seem to finish the novels I’ve started. I mean, I’m 33 and have three 2/3rds finished novels under my belt that are pretty good, but…I think not finishing them is a psychological problem: you can’t fail as a novelist if you never finish a novel.

If adults were issued report cards, the comment on mine would say “not living up to potential.”

26

Well, I scored very highly on childhood IQ tests (my parents would never tell me how high) and was placed in the “gifted student” program in grade school. I took all honors/AP classes in high school, graduated 4th in my class (out of 250) and earned a National Merit Scholarship. My guidance counselor once told me “I don’t think you understand how smart you are.” :rolleyes: Went to Northwestern University, where I had a pretty solid B/B+ average (could have done better but I wasn’t really trying that hard).

I do okay now, I’m middle management in a Fortune 200 company. I’ve got a great family. But nothing spectacular.

27

My high school didn’t have much in the way of programs for ‘gifted’ students, but I was knew from a young age that I was brighter than most of the kids I went to school with. High school was pretty easy and I did well by virtue of being obedient - I did the homework because I was supposed to and that was enough to get me good grades.

I was in for a rude awakening in college. I define myself by my intelligent and suddenly I wasn’t special anymore. On top of that I’d never learned to work. It’s taken a long time to recover from that

I’m working on a PhD in astrophysics. I’m squeaking by and I’ve got a good case of Imposter Syndrome.

The discussion reminds me of this article on praising smart children.

28

wave

Told all the time by my mom, my teachers, etc. how smart I was.

Never believed them, really. Didn’t feel smart, didn’t want to be smart, just wanted to be me.

Entered Kindergarten reading at 5th grade level (per my records; seen 'em.) Kindergarten teacher turned me on to Island of the Blue Dolphins.

Tested in the 90th percentile plus on nearly every standardized test I ever took.

Pulled Bs throughout my schooling career without even trying or doing homework.

Tried college. Couldn’t hack it. Years of not having to try meant that I had zero study skills. Years of being told that I was smart and everything being easy for me made me think I must be dumb when everything wasn’t easy anymore.

Now working at a civil service job. Lower middle class, I guess. Tried college again a couple years back; it was easier, but I still don’t have any study skills. Writing essays is pretty damn painful.

Thanks for this thread, Olives. I’ve always felt guilty - got the impression that I was expected to be the next Marie Curie/Elenore Roosevelt/Harriet Beecher Stowe/Gloria Steinem, go out and change the world, make it a better place for everyone. That in choosing to live my small life and not do something like that, I was letting everyone down. It’s nice to see that there are others who started out similarly but who haven’t Made The World A Better Place.

29

There was no gifted program at my school, but I would have qualified if there were one. I coasted my way to a math degree at a top college with five semesters at an A- average (and three barely above a B, but that’s another story). After that I got a cushy job developing software. I stayed there for about five years, but realized that I wasn’t operating anywhere near my potential, so I went back for a master’s in CS. Along the way, I realized that academic research was the only thing difficult enough to hold my interested for any length of time, so I switched fields to statistics and now I’m working on a PhD.

30

Interesting thread idea, Olives.

Obviously there is plenty to be said for genius level intelligence, but so often these same people have very little social skills as others have pointed out.

I read very few messageboards, but in my limited experience I’ve found that this board claims to have the smartest people around and yet I’ve noticed the greatest level of social awkwardness and antisocial behavior here as well.

There are a great many people here who almost seem like they’re lives are poorer for all of their “brilliance”

31

Wow - you are my people. It seems we all have a similar trajectory - I started reading at 3, tested very high by all measures throughout grade school, fawned over by teachers and counselors until I entered the combine of high school, where I skated by academically once I realized I could. I averaged a 3.8 my freshman year (only because I had a bad case of pneumonia that I didn’t get fully caught up from, or I probably would have had a 4.0); I graduated with a 2.5.

Straightened myself out somewhat after high school, spent a short stint in the Navy, then kicked around various jobs, until I met my wife and decided to get my act together. I took a year of community college while trying to work for a living, but gave it up.

I eventually landed in software sales at a Fortune 500 company, and moved into sales operations a few years later, where I’m a program lead for our CRM program. It’s certainly not what I’d envisioned for myself when I was 10 years old, and being told by most everyone in school that I was destined for great things. But life turned out pretty good, I must say. I’m respected in my job, and I’ve got a great family, and I wouldn’t change a thing.

32

Thanks for that. Because, you know, it’s never been pointed out before, and it’s certainly productive.

33

Oh I had no idea “In My Humble Opinion” had changed to “Productive ONLY!”

This forum is going to be very, very empty under your new regime Der Bosstone.

34

I give you an A+ for funny. This post cracked me up.

AFAIK I was never given an IQ test as a child. I was a very good writer for my age, but I was not particularly advanced in other areas.

I keep saying I was a really good writer; I’d like to make this a little more concrete. I wrote the following poem when I was in fourth grade. And it is so something I would write…

On Thanksgiving Day while walking down the street
A turkey is what I happened to meet.
‘‘Hello,’’ it said, without hesitation.
‘‘I’m from the National Turkey Organization.
We represent our fine feathered friends
who feel they aren’t paid fair dividends.
Our kind cannot survive in the bird populations
if you don’t quit making dinner reservations!
You capture us, pluck us, take away our lives.
You gobble us up with spoons, forks and knives.
You barbaric people must stop this I say!
Before all us turkeys are eaten away.
That is my statement, I hope you’re surprised.
Contact my lawyer if you feel otherwise.’’

(It goes on, something about choosing to eat a salad and meeting a cabbage the next day.)

Admittedly there are issues with meter and rhythm in the beginning (which I was aware of, and which bothered me even then), and it’s not exactly logically consistent, but it’s not bad for a ten-year-old, right? I used to write little rhyming poems for everything back in those days, including a poem I posted on my bedroom door after installing a brass doorknocker on it. The poem was written from the point of view of the doorknocker. I was a weird kid. I’m still a weird adult. My point is, this was about passion for me. It’s something I did because writing was in my bones. It imbued everything I did with a sense of wonder.

And at some point, it became less about wonder and more about being ‘‘good enough.’’ And screw that. I want that old me back, the one who could sit down and write a silly turkey poem and love every minute of it. And at that age, I did not give a royal shit what other people thought about me. People would be like, ‘‘You’re so weird,’’ and I would be like, ‘‘So what?’’ I’d kill to have that level of self-possession again. I totally owned who I was, and this might sound odd, but this summer I have spent an awful lot of time reconnecting with that weird girl, that person who I am at my core, and I love it. I feel more peace and self-acceptance than I have in literally decades. I’ve spent the last 20 years feeling like I need to apologize for who I am, and I finally came to the realization that I actually like this person quite a bit, thank you. So I’m unburying the real me, getting rid of all this extraneous crap that isn’t me, and celebrating the turkey poetry of my soul.

Not a lot of options where I went to school either. My high school in particular was pretty awful. I don’t feel I really learned to think critically until I got to college. For all the flak that Curtis LeMay gets around here, the kid is thinking on a much more advanced level than I was at that age. It never would have occurred to me to post the kinds of questions he does. I was too busy writing in my diary and thinking about boys I liked. If at 12 years old you think ‘‘Who was the worst president?’’ is worthy of discussion, in my mind, you’re gifted.

Oh, I can so relate to that sentiment.

My husband applied to Northwestern but didn’t get in. Instead, he settled for his second choice, where he met me. I celebrate his failure. :wink:

35

:rolleyes: You need to find a new shtick. You’re not nearly half as snarky as you think you are, and you don’t know how to calibrate your settings. Try dialing back from Overkill, even Shot From Guns isn’t that bad.

It’s just getting tired constantly hearing about how more intelligent but less socially graceful people are shitty human beings.

36

Let’s see… I spent all of my free time in childhood and adolescence reading voraciously, I skipped the first grade, I always got straight As all the way through college, and I got a National Merit Scholarship. After graduating, I worked for six years in my field, got married, and then went back to school. Am now working on a PhD in molecular biology at an Ivy League university.

37

I think if you knocked that chip off your shoulder you might be able to read the words on the screen and not apply your own filter to everything you see. Nobody (certainly not me) has said that more intelligent but less socially graceful people are shitty human beings so please, please, please get over yourself and quickly.

I’m sorry if my observation isn’t making this thread the “Let’s all come in and brag about how uber smart we are and how we all learned to read at 3 years old” thread you thought it would be. There’s been plenty of those here before, why does this have to be a repeat of it again?

Also, my comment has nothing to do with trying to be snarky although I am flattered that you think you remember my posts so well. Still, if you stopped applying that filter I’ve mentioned you might find that what you think people are saying isn’t really what’s been said.

38

Well, we’re even on applying filters to what we’re reading. What I’m seeing in this thread is less “gosh, aren’t we all awesome” and more “yeah, ‘gifted’ means jack all.”

39

This reminds me of a friend of mine from college. He is, quite literally, the most brilliant person I’d ever met. He was in all the gifted programs and had it beaten into his head that he was special. He hated it.

He graduated with two degrees in 3 years and then just stopped. His family wanted him to go to law school, but he just didn’t want to. He was proud to say his work ethic was crap.

He’s really happy in a so-so job. He makes enough money for how he wants to live and he’s content. His family is still furious, but he’s a happy guy.

40

Now 28, and nowhere special in terms of career achievement. That said, I left a top flight public (ie., private) school in the UK when I was 14 (where I was a straight-A student) and went to a bottom-flight state school in Florida, and never really recovered academically.

On the other hand, once I was no longer an uber-student I became much more well-rounded as a person and could attract girls and stuff.

On the other hand, I got an excellent LSAT score that more or less made up for my crappy college grades. I’m going to law school in the fall; we’ll see how I do when I’m motivated.