# Gilbert & Sullivan **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 19, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711 "2013-05-19T01:05:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/1 "2013-05-19T01:05:38Z")
Why do you think that even after a century, Gilbert & Sullivan are still reasonably well known? What are the notable traits of their works? Are there any particular flaws which tend to be present? They’re often seen as being quite British indeed. What makes them so? Have there been similar works by others since then? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/2 "2013-05-19T01:13:07Z")
What’s the question? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/3 "2013-05-19T01:20:10Z")
G&S: Yay or Nay. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/4 "2013-05-19T01:22:00Z")
There’s no question about Gilbert and Sullivan! ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/5 "2013-05-19T02:07:46Z")
Well, they are the true embodiment of everything that’s excellent, but I don’t see how the poll choices make any sense, so I didn’t vote. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/6 "2013-05-19T02:14:41Z")
Biting, hilarious and extremely dated satire set to tunes now considered so old-fashioned as to be occasionally classed with Classical; even more “British” than the Brits today 'cause they’re Victorian Brits! I can has Mikado? All your Penzance are belong to us! ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/7 "2013-05-19T02:16:40Z")
They’re quotes from “I am the captain of the Pinafore”. No, never!= No, nay. Hardly ever!= Yes, yay. As in, what do you think of Gilbert and Sullivan, yay or nay? What about them is so excellent? Even without a poll, this thread would still be about G&S so if you have anything to say about that, please do. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/8 "2013-05-19T02:17:23Z")
It really doesn’t matter matter matter matter matter. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/9 "2013-05-19T02:17:27Z")
[Alone Again (Naturally)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alone_Again_(Naturally)) was one of the sappiest songs ever written. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/10 "2013-05-19T03:25:46Z")
I wish they were more popular today. When I was a child back in the 60s, I get the impression that their music was pretty universally known, but I fear they are obscure to the current generation. Of course it might have just been my home - my dad was a big fan. Sadly, what opportunities do kids have to be exposed to their work today? Both my nieces are sopranos and would have been wonderful G&S ingenues, but sadly their high school music directors insisted on wasting money paying for the rights to mediocre Broadway crap. Oh, and Fear Itself, listen to it again. It is a suicide song. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/11 "2013-05-19T03:28:53Z")
Added the question to the poll at the OP’s request. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/12 "2013-05-19T03:52:57Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > I wish they were more popular today. When I was a child back in the 60s, I get the impression that their music was pretty universally known, but I fear they are obscure to the current generation. It needs to be an Arena Show, with Zac Efron and Vanessa Hudgens\*. \*He said, not really knowing who those people are ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/13 "2013-05-19T04:39:14Z")
When you see an actual performance live (4 times in NYC, 1 in LA!) you wouldn’t have to even ask. They still hold up. ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/14 "2013-05-19T04:51:59Z")
The satire has not completely dated. The modern Major-General or the Ruler of the Queen’s Navee were the Pointy Haired Bosses of their day. People appointed for political or managerial reasons independently of merit. I accept, of course, that some of the references have passed into history. References to Buttercup’s practising baby farming won’t make a lot of sense to modern ears. While both men had ambitions to being serious artists, they were self-consciously writing lightweight, cheerful, faux-jingoistic pieces for fun in their collaborations. Songs like those at the end of Pinafore where he “remains an Englishman” were not taken at their time as po-faced hymns - they were cheerful, good-natured satire. It’s subversive without being mean-spirited, and there is a place for that. Villains always lose, the virtuous always win, and true love triumphs eternal, according to the simple rules of melodrama that the plots follow. And fun they are. Who isn’t enchanted by the three little maids from school? Who isn’t amused by the patter songs? And production values have improved over time. A night spent at a G and S revival of Mikado or Pinafore or Pirates of Penzance will be a rollicking, cheerful, good time. It’s not Shakespeare or Pinter or Verdi, but it doesn’t try to be, nor does it have to be. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/15 "2013-05-19T16:53:31Z")
What’s with the poll, man? I love Gilbert and Sullivan more than anyone else in the world does. I can’t get enough of them! Arthur Sullivan is my favourite composer. I’ve spent almost 10 happy years in a Gilbert and Sullivan society, and met tons of like-minded friends. I have an immeasuarable amount of fun in that society. Gilbert and Sullivan are responsible for much of my current happiness. I don’t know how I would’ve gotten through my life without them. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/16 "2013-05-19T17:36:14Z")
Anybody else seen _Topsy-Turvy_? It’s a brilliantly produced and amazingly historically accurate portrayal of the making of the Mikado. Everytime I watch it my family winces, 'cause I’m G&S’ing for weeks! ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/17 "2013-05-19T17:42:59Z")
I agree, G & S are “a source of innocent merriment!” ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/18 "2013-05-19T17:43:09Z")
I’m not that fond of Sullivan, he’s okay, but Gilbert is brilliant. HE short stories are fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/19 "2013-05-19T18:20:40Z")
I became a fan and love **Mikado** (my favorite performance was seeing Itzhak Perlman playing the Mikado) and **Pinafore**. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711/20 "2013-05-19T18:38:58Z")
My favourites are Yeomen and Princess Ida. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gilbert-sullivan/658711.md?page=2)