# Gillette's controversial ad -or- I found the incels! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939 "2019-01-17T19:10:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Elmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e9a140/32.png) [@Elmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmore)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/61 "2019-01-19T10:46:04Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > You must resent a lot of PSA’s. Get your child vaccinated. Don’t smoke. Don’t drive drunk. Don’t litter. How dare they? Don’t be stupid. They want to save lives not sell razor blades. > [@](#): > > I won’t defend Gillette on ads from the past because they were, in fact, pretty sexist. You might have noticed that in the ad in question, they acknowledge their own guilt on this score. _Goes back and rewatched ad_ Umm…no they don’t. > [@](#): > > And of course they want to make money. So did Nike with the Kaepernick ad, which worked. Given that they want to boost sales, I’d rather they did it with ads like this than with sexist ads. You might be happy taking moral instruction from Don Draper just because you happen to agree with the message, but I’m not. > [@Voyager](#): > > I reject plenty of advice - like that I get from the front of every church I pass. Or the ads telling me that if I were a real successful man I’d buy my wife a Mercedes for Christmas. Or 99% of the ads I see. But I’m not offended by any of them. I bet you aren’t either. You’re dodging the question. How badly would a _corporation_ need to behave before you became _annoyed_ (not offended, but _annoyed_, there is a difference) by them telling you how to be a good person? If you answer is that there’s no limit then we’ll just have to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/62 "2019-01-19T11:31:55Z")
It’s literally the first part of the ad. They show off a bunch of their old types of advertisements, and then repudiate themselves by using their own slogan to say “Is this really the best a man can get?” Of course they are just a soulless organization. But so is every other organization. Some put out ads with bad messages, that promote bad things. Some, on the other hand, put out good messages. They say the things we want our young people and still deciding people to hear. Just like the PSAs also put out messages we want people to hear. It doesn’t matter one bit who put them out or why. For all you know, the PSA exists because of a lawsuit, or some law that passed, or to make a politician look better. Many PSAs are privately funded–see the “very special episode” or ads with rich celebrities saying things: they’re just doing it for a paycheck a lot of the time. And, yes, I am not answering your questions, because I reject your framing. It’s called a frame challenge. If you’ve been on the good boards out there, you’re familiar with the concept. We reject the framing that this is some multinational soulless company telling us what to do, and that we should be mad about this. It’s a soulless company putting out a good message, and we want there to be more good messages out there. Why the hell would I be upset if Don Draper put out an anti-smoking ad? As long as it’s not designed to undermine the position, the result is that more people learn the harms of smoking. I don’t care that he smokes a ton a day, or what other evil stuff he does. It’s not like being evil makes the message wrong. That’s _ad hominem_. And I have to realize that, if I get mad at them over this, they’ll stop doing this, and go back to what they did before, putting out the ads that appealed to toxic masculinity, that just as much “told me what to do,” but told me bad things. And told other people them, too. That’s how capitalism works. Companies do what makes them the most money and helps their brand. If doing the right thing helps, they do that. If doing the wrong thing helps, they do that. So why wouldn’t I encourage them to do the right thing? If you want to take down capitalism, then that’s a whole other argument, and you’d better have an idea of what to replace it with. Because, right now capitalism is what works. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/63 "2019-01-19T19:21:25Z")
It’s hilarious that the soulless multinational corporation has, with one advert, got hordes of social justice warrior types giving them loads of free publicity. I assume many of those people are those that claim that they can’t be swayed by advertising as well. As for the praise the advert has got, it’s still framing things in terms of manliness. Just try to be a decent person, regardless of gender roles. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/64 "2019-01-19T19:30:34Z")
It seems to me that the people bothered by this ad are the people typically throwing around the SJW label. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/65 "2019-01-19T19:35:16Z")
> [@Elmore](#): > > Don’t be stupid. They want to save lives not sell razor blades. One could argue that Gillette is also trying to save lives. How many victims of bullying later turned around and killed the bully? NB: a spouse killing their abuser counts. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/66 "2019-01-19T20:10:09Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > It seems to me that the people bothered by this ad are the people typically throwing around the SJW label. I’m not bothered by the ad, I think it’s a brilliant piece of marketing. I will say that people taking it seriously enough to be offended by it is just as funny as people taking it seriously enough to praise its message. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/67 "2019-01-19T20:44:30Z")
It would be informative if the men offended by the ad could point out the parts that bother them and explain why. Got any takers? I have transcribed it to make it easy. > [@](#): > > UNIDENTIFIED MUSICAL ARTIST: (Singing) Gillette, the best a man can get. > > (SOUNDBITE OF AD, “WE BELIEVE: THE BEST MEN CAN BE”) > > UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Bullying. > > UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: The #MeToo movement against sexual harassment. > > UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Toxic masculinity. > > **NARRATOR: Is this the best a man can get?** > > (SOUNDBITE OF AD, “WE BELIEVE: THE BEST MEN CAN BE”) > > **NARRATOR: Is it? We can’t hide from it. It’s been going on far too long. We can’t laugh it off. Making the same old excuses.** > > UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Boys will be boys. > > UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Boys will be boys. > > **NARRATOR: But something finally changed.** > > UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: …allegations regarding sexual assault and harassment. > > **NARRATOR: And there is no going back. Because we, we believe in the best in men.** > > TERRY CREWS: Men need to hold other men accountable. > > UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Smile, sweetie. > > UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: C’mon. > > **NARRATOR: To say the right thing. To act the right way.** Rather than continue the laborious process of transcribing every little thing, I will just show what how the narrator finishes the rest. > [@](#): > > \*\*Some are already doing that. In ways big, and small. But some is not enough. Because the boys watching today, will be the men of tomorrow. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/68 "2019-01-19T21:14:49Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It’s hilarious that the soulless multinational corporation has, with one advert, got hordes of social justice warrior types giving them loads of free publicity. I assume many of those people are those that claim that they can’t be swayed by advertising as well. LOL. The great bulk of the free publicity comes from butthurt conservatives expressing outrage at it. Mostly on twitter. According to Ad-age, this is a huge win for Gillette. It’s a national topic of conversation grounded on an advertisement that will be shown a total of one time on national television. It puts the brand out there. Gillette ad Gillette ad Gillette Gillette GilletteGillette Gillette Gillette GilletteGilletteGilletteGilletteGilletteGillette - it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/69 "2019-01-19T21:35:58Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It would be informative if the men offended by the ad could point out the parts that bother them and explain why. Got any takers? I have transcribed it to make it easy. It’s an attack on modern conservative values. See a kid on his back being pummeled by another kid on top of him? Real conservatives join in, pat the bully on the back, and give him a challenge coin. Woman being catcalled on the street? The real victims are male conservatives expressing their sexuality. Personal accountability, human dignity, and stepping up to protect the weak, right a wrong? Nails that stick out get hammered: conservatives believe in ducking their heads at the first sign of trouble, leaving tough fights to others. Much better to side find a sympathetic mob to side with, one that isn’t bothered by proclivities towards assault or other illegal activity. All that small government stuff? It’s bullshit. The glue that binds the modern American conservativism is [sadism](https://twitter.com/johnastoehr/status/1086313398323822592), preferably against a target that can’t fight back, from which it follows that best opponents are [imaginary ones](https://stoehr.substack.com/p/behind-owning-the-libs-sadism). The ad was highly offensive to modern conservative values. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/70 "2019-01-20T03:04:00Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > _joins dropzone at the drafting table_ Not a drafter myself, but hey, [del]7[/del]8 years of Draftsmanship do show! (Is it weird to want to set up a draftsmanship table one of these days and redraw some of my old exercises as a hobby?) Not weird at all! Imagine the bite of the vellum as it pulls chips of graphite off your lead, the ever so quiet scratch of your Rapidograph’s nib, the smooth, powdery feel of vellum freshly pounced (inking is even more tactile than using a pencil). Not the slightest bit weird, if you start out OCD. My first psychologist said, “At least you chose the right profession.” Direct quote. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/71 "2019-01-20T03:40:12Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It would be informative if the men offended by the ad could point out the parts that bother them and explain why. Got any takers? I have transcribed it to make it easy. > > Rather than continue the laborious process of transcribing every little thing, I will just show what how the narrator finishes the rest. For me it’s this line. > [@](#): > > TERRY CREWS: Men need to hold other men This is completely unreasonable. Have you picked a man up lately? They are heavy. I am NOT a body builder Terry! I can’t [dance my titty muscles](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH26boHgfQw) like you! ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/72 "2019-01-20T04:32:58Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I will say that people taking it seriously enough to be offended by it is just as funny as people taking it seriously enough to praise its message. I guess? But really the 2nd group only exists because of how vocal the 1st group is. They otherwise wouldn’t have thought much of it. It’s a big self-own on the part of “outraged” man-children. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/73 "2019-01-20T07:39:07Z")
> [@Elmore](#): > > You’re dodging the question. How badly would a _corporation_ need to behave before you became _annoyed_ (not offended, but _annoyed_, there is a difference) by them telling you how to be a good person? > > If you answer is that there’s no limit then we’ll just have to agree to disagree. The bad behavior took place a long time ago. Now if the head of the Gillette division had been accused of harassing women, and got a bonus for it, then this campaign would be hypocritical. I doubt Gillette as a division has much to do with tampons. I don’t know P&G’s structure, but I’d bet the Gillette people never even talk to the tampon people, so it doesn’t seem to be the case here. Now if it was a bad message, I’d reject it as a bad message. Telling me to be a good person? No problem. Especially with their specifics. I went to a class about what to do if you come upon some racist scumbag hectoring someone. That was a case of learning how to be a better person. No I was not offended. It would be interesting to know where this idea came from - was it Gillette, or was it the ad agency who had been chartered to do something socially useful. If the ad encourages even a small fraction of men to intervene as shown at the end, I think it is a really good thing - a lot better than 99% of the ads I’ve seen. Do you agree? ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/74 "2019-01-20T14:28:39Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > LOL I’ll give ya one better. …I have sensitive skin on my face and I break out horribly after shaving sometimes > > After one such incident I went into the mom aND pop pharmacy ando the girl there was horrified and I told her how and why it happened she gave me a sample kit of a Venus razor and a venus branded shaving gel and explained the blades and gel were made differently since they were for shaving the “lady parts” > > And I used if for a long time … sometimes now I still do but I think I got used to shaving … I wonder if that would be better for my balls than the Mach3 Turbo. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/75 "2019-01-20T16:16:54Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > I wonder if that would be better for my balls than the Mach3 Turbo. YES ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/76 "2019-01-20T17:36:50Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Do you personally need to be better? > > Then shut up. ROFL. I don’t harass, bully, any of that. So… as far as the ad goes I don’t give a shit. it isn’t talking about me. I think the real problem is, it touched a nerve. What was the ad saying? “Don’t be an asshole”. Only the assholes should be registering ANYthing. People need to grow some balls, man up, and move on. [![](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://preview.redd.it/a2q672mx2ua21.jpg?width%3D768%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D84426668d99d7b9d85ef07930e47fb4915cf0f5f&imgrefurl=https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/agohws/boys_will_be_boys/&docid=cvxDQfFPs9NyIM&tbnid=jF0UP2BBVI-trM:&vet=1&w=768&h=768&source=sh/x/im) ](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://preview.redd.it/a2q672mx2ua21.jpg?width%3D768%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D84426668d99d7b9d85ef07930e47fb4915cf0f5f&imgrefurl=https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/agohws/boys_will_be_boys/&docid=cvxDQfFPs9NyIM&tbnid=jF0UP2BBVI-trM:&vet=1&w=768&h=768&source=sh/x/im) Fucking snowflakes. Grow the fuck up already. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/77 "2019-01-20T17:38:50Z")
[quote=“bobot, post:20, topic:827939”] OK, I watched the clip from that thread and all I can say is that if anyone is offended by that, then anyone is a fucking douchebag. It’s an ad saying “Don’t be a dick.” If anyone is offended that Gillette, in an attempt to sell razors, is telling anyone not to be a dick, then anyone is a dick and can go fuck themself. With some gillette razors. Hell, they could have made a regular commercial and put some fucking Nickelback music on it or something. That would have been offensive. [/QUOTE] OK, buddy, that’s IT!!! I’m gonna shave with shotguns! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/78 "2019-01-20T18:06:14Z")
I don’t praise Gillette for this ad. I praise the activists who’ve changed our culture sufficiently that multinational corporations see money to be made in ads like this. They’re a symptom of a culture shift, and they don’t get credit for being a symptom, but it sure is a nice thing to see anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/79 "2019-01-20T20:09:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I praise the activists who’ve changed our culture sufficiently that multinational corporations see money to be made in ads like this. One thing the advert got right is to show that it’s emphatically _not_ activists who change culture, it’s ordinary individuals calling out those who misbehave that do so. Activists claiming credit for the zeitgeist is another thing that is hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939/80 "2019-01-20T21:26:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I don’t praise Gillette for this ad. I praise the activists who’ve changed our culture sufficiently that multinational corporations see money to be made in ads like this. > > They’re a symptom of a culture shift, and they don’t get credit for being a symptom, but it sure is a nice thing to see anyway. > [@Steophan](#): > > One thing the advert got right is to show that it’s emphatically _not_ activists who change culture, it’s ordinary individuals calling out those who misbehave that do so. Activists claiming credit for the zeitgeist is another thing that is hilarious. It’s a chain of events. Zietgeist doesn’t happen without an initiator. I do praise Gillette for its guts and skill at ad-spending efficiency. Sort of like I praise an athlete for their performance, while _appropriately_ expecting little of them as role models. That’s really not their job. I could imagine praising a privately owned business for its moral uprightness [1], or a bigger company for its corporate culture.[2] But Gillette is a division within a conglomerate, and I see no evidence that P&G is particularly interested in advancing human progress. Nor do I expect them to: it’s not their job. [1] Can’t think of any. [2] Vanguard, USAA, and Alphabet, not that any are perfect. Most of the praiseworthy are not perfect because nobody is; few are close. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gillettes-controversial-ad-or-i-found-the-incels/827939.md?page=5)