# Gimme yer dough **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 13, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496 "2017-11-13T00:01:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/1 "2017-11-13T00:01:02Z")
Or: calling all bakers. I like to bake, but it’s not always my forte. Today I decided to revisit an old recipe that my mother used to make. She got it from a Russian lady she knew in Juneau back in the old days. It’s called (or at least she called it) “perushke”, and it’s one of the indelible flavors from my childhood. Basically, it’s just raised roll dough wrapped around a meat/veg filling, and then deep fried. But man, that dough is a pain in the butt. It’s so elastic that rolling it out after it raises is the worst part of the whole process. I smack it around and let it rest to relax the gluten, but. . .DAMN! I don’t try to roll out the entire batch of dough, but rather cut off a large enough piece to make a few packets, then repeat. But the dough remains stubbornly difficult. Any tips welcome, as this took an entire afternoon to get these made and I haven’t even started frying them yet! No wonder my mother resisted my pleas for her to make these. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/2 "2017-11-13T00:29:19Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Any tips welcome, as this took an entire afternoon to get these made and I haven’t even started frying them yet! No wonder my mother resisted my pleas for her to make these. Can you share the recipe? My first instinct is that the dough is just too dry. Did you use AP flour? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/3 "2017-11-13T00:41:39Z")
I used [this recipe](https://www.justapinch.com/recipes/bread/sweet-bread/the-best-sweet-yeast-roll-dough-i.html), made as written. Also kept covered whatever I wasn’t working at the time. My wife just suggested that we try using the pasta roller next time. Hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/4 "2017-11-13T01:00:48Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I used [this recipe](https://www.justapinch.com/recipes/bread/sweet-bread/the-best-sweet-yeast-roll-dough-i.html), made as written. Also kept covered whatever I wasn’t working at the time. > > My wife just suggested that we try using the pasta roller next time. Hmmm… OK, let’s look at the hydration. 4.5 cups AP flour at ~120g/cup gives 540g flour. 250g water+milk + 120g egg =370g liquid. That’s about 68% hydration (liquid/flour \* 100). Hmm. That actually looks about right for purpose. Did you maybe add a lot of flour to keep it from sticking to the counter or rolling pin? How long did you leave it to rise after mixing? The recipe says 1 hour. What was the texture like at that point? The other thing that sticks out about that recipe is the large quantity of yeast. I almost always use a small amount of yeast (more like 1% of the flour) and let the dough ferment for longer. It improves the flavour as well as the handle-ability. The extra yeast might have rushed the rise and not allowed the flour to fully absorb the liquid, affecting the extensibility of the dough. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/5 "2017-11-13T01:13:13Z")
You didn’t use quick-rise yeast, did you? If the recipe is old, then don’t use quick-rise yeast, because it hasn’t been around that long. Either use regular yeast, or cut the rising time by about 1/4 or 1/5. I use a challah recipe that has been in the family for years. I use peanut or corn oil and Crisco instead of shmaltz and suet, to make it vegetarian, and I also use quick-rise yeast, so instead of literally waiting all day for it to rise, I wait an hour. Actually, I rise it twice; 20 minutes, then make the loaves, then 1 hour. With regular yeast, the first rising would be about 90 minutes, and the second five or six hours. I remember my mother and grandmother having to use cake yeast, that you had to start with sugar water and shmaltz heated on the stove to and EXACT temp, which you had to guess at, and somehow, they always got it right. I just use the hottest water I can get from the tap, and check it with a candy thermometer. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/6 "2017-11-13T01:14:17Z")
Look, this is highly unscientific, but I’ll make this observation: When I make a certain recipe of pizza dough, freeze portions for use another day and then defrost and allow to rise, the dough fights me like a heavyweight. Put it away in the fridge for another night/day, then bring out to warm and rise the _ **next** _ day, and it rolls out like you tipped it an extra hundred bucks. FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/7 "2017-11-13T03:13:00Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > OK, let’s look at the hydration. 4.5 cups AP flour at ~120g/cup gives 540g flour. 250g water+milk + 120g egg =370g liquid. That’s about 68% hydration (liquid/flour \* 100). Hmm. That actually looks about right for purpose. > > Did you maybe add a lot of flour to keep it from sticking to the counter or rolling pin? > > How long did you leave it to rise after mixing? The recipe says 1 hour. What was the texture like at that point? > > The other thing that sticks out about that recipe is the large quantity of yeast. I almost always use a small amount of yeast (more like 1% of the flour) and let the dough ferment for longer. It improves the flavour as well as the handle-ability. The extra yeast might have rushed the rise and not allowed the flour to fully absorb the liquid, affecting the extensibility of the dough. I left it for the hour, but thought it looked like it could use a bit more, so gave it another 15 minutes. The texture was quite elastic, but it didn’t seem to be doubled to me. Perhaps the kitchen wasn’t quite warm enough, although I did turn the oven on during the hour. The amount of yeast seemed large to me, as well. I did add a bit of flour to the board and rolling pin, but tried not to overdo it. The end product came out good, and we stuffed ourselves. The filling is ground beef, onion, celery, bell pepper, garlic and minced rosemary all simmered together in a pot of water, then drained and cooled. ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/8 "2017-11-13T03:19:28Z")
I’d try the same recipe again, but maybe reduce the yeast, and leave the dough out for two hours or so, then refrigerate overnight and finish the next day. See if a longer [autolyse](https://www.bakerybits.co.uk/resources/autolyse-what-why-how/) period helps. ---
**Author:** ![Sandra\_Battye](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sandra_battye/32/552_2.png) [@Sandra\_Battye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandra_Battye)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/9 "2017-11-13T04:50:29Z")
Try it under the spelling “Pirozhki” ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/10 "2017-11-13T06:14:04Z")
> [@Sandra\_Battye](#): > > Try it under the spelling “Pirozhki” Oh, cripes, is that what she wanted? I used to live in Russia, and I didn’t even get that from the OP’s spelling. Yeah, they make that all over E. Europe. Cognates are “pirogie” in Poland, and “pirohy” in Slovakia. By the way, “pirozhki” is plural. The singular is “pirozhok.” And yeah, the dough is elastic. That’s how it has that chewy texture. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/11 "2017-11-13T08:54:07Z")
Do you _need_ to roll? When I make bau (also a very elastic risen dough), I just take a walnut-sized piece and flatten it with my fingers, then slip the filling in and fold closed. [Like this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baozi#/media/File:Chinese-Dumplings-BoaZi-4895.jpg)… I would counsel against using the pasta roller, I find risen doughs stick something vicious. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/12 "2017-11-13T12:44:10Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Oh, cripes, is that what she wanted? I used to live in Russia, and I didn’t even get that from the OP’s spelling. Yeah, they make that all over E. Europe. Cognates are “pirogie” in Poland, and “pirohy” in Slovakia. > > By the way, “pirozhki” is plural. The singular is “pirozhok.” > > And yeah, the dough is elastic. That’s how it has that chewy texture. That was my first thought, too, along with the elastic dough. The dough is supposed to be like it was described in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/13 "2017-11-13T15:24:19Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Oh, cripes, is that what she wanted? I used to live in Russia, and I didn’t even get that from the OP’s spelling. Yeah, they make that all over E. Europe. Cognates are “pirogie” in Poland, and “pirohy” in Slovakia. > > By the way, “pirozhki” is plural. The singular is “pirozhok.” > > And yeah, the dough is elastic. That’s how it has that chewy texture. Yeah, I’m aware of all that (my wife is of Polish extraction), but my mother was not a sophisticate, and was going by her approximation of the phonetic spelling. I grew up thinking that ragout was pronounced “rag out” because of a dish she liked to make. 🙂 Whether or not the dough is supposed to be that elastic, it’s still a pain in the ass to work with. I’m thinking that a longer, slower rise and perhaps allowing the flour/liquid mix to sit for a bit prior to adding the yeast will help. I rarely make these, and the dough is the reason. The last time was probably ten years ago. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gimme-yer-dough/801496/14 "2017-11-14T03:34:00Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > Oh, cripes, is that what she wanted? I used to live in Russia, and I didn’t even get that from the OP’s spelling. Yeah, they make that all over E. Europe. Cognates are “pirogie” in Poland, and “pirohy” in Slovakia. _Pierogi_ in Polish. Yes, they are cognates (I assume), but distinct from _pirozhki_. Polish _pierogi_ (and Slovak _pirohy_) are closest to Russian _varenyky_.