# Gin rummy gameplay question **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 22, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769 "2014-07-22T19:43:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/1 "2014-07-22T19:43:32Z")
Dealer deals ten cards to each player. Deck goes in the middle; one card turned over to form a discard pile. What happens next? 1. The way I learned: the non-dealing player can draw the exposed card or the top card from the deck, and then discard a card. Then the dealer can draw the exposed top discard card or the next card from the deck, and discard a card. Play continues until someone has 10 or fewer deadwood points, and then he can knock. 2. What might be the actual rules: the non-dealing player can draw the exposed card or pass. Then the dealer can draw the non-exposed card or pass. THEN the non-dealer can draw the top card from the deck, and then discard a card. Then the dealer can draw the exposed top discard card or the next card from the deck, and discard a card. Play continues thusly as above. Which one is right? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/2 "2014-07-22T19:46:48Z")
I mean, the second version is what Hoyle specifies, but there’s no God of Gaming. My family’s always played the first way and no one’s died yet. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/3 "2014-07-22T19:47:11Z")
I’ve always played it the first way. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/4 "2014-07-22T19:56:53Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I mean, the second version is what Hoyle specifies, but there’s no God of Gaming. My family’s always played the first way and no one’s died yet. Well…there’s a right way and a lot of wrong ways. I hate to think I’ve been playing wrongly all these years. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/5 "2014-07-22T20:03:21Z")
How does one determine a right way vs a wrong way? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/6 "2014-07-22T20:04:07Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > How does one determine a right way vs a wrong way? By reference to official rules. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/7 "2014-07-22T20:17:20Z")
What makes a particular version of rules official? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/8 "2014-07-22T20:20:29Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What makes a particular version of rules official? Clearly the inclusion of the word “Official” on the cover of the book containing said rules. /s As long as all players agree, the rules can be whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/9 "2014-07-22T20:38:47Z")
It’s true that as long as all players agree to play a game with a certain set of rules, those rules govern that game. But it will certainly handicap me when I sit down to play chess with you and am surprised when you object to my attempt to return my captured queen to the board by using one of my three Royal Lifelines. IOW: standard games have standard rules. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/10 "2014-07-22T20:49:34Z")
And so far, it appears that at least among the posters in this thread, a standard game of gin rummy follows the first format. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/11 "2014-07-22T20:59:13Z")
My reactions, upon reading the OP (keeping in mind that it’s been years since I last played gin rummy): > [@Bricker](#): > > Dealer deals ten cards to each player. Deck goes in the middle; one card turned over to form a discard pile. What happens next? > > 1. The way I learned: the non-dealing player can draw the exposed card or the top card from the deck, and then discard a card. Then the dealer can draw the exposed top discard card or the next card from the deck, and discard a card. Play continues until someone has 10 or fewer deadwood points, and then he can knock. Yeah, that sounds right… > [@](#): > > 1. What might be the actual rules: the non-dealing player can draw the exposed card or pass. Then the dealer can draw the non-exposed card or pass. THEN the non-dealer can draw the top card from the deck, and then discard a card. Then the dealer can draw the exposed top discard card or the next card from the deck, and discard a card. Play continues thusly as above. Oh yeah! Now that you mention it, I seem to remember something like this! > [@](#): > > Which one is right? I suspect that many people play it the 1st way simply because they, like I, plumb forgot that little twist. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/12 "2014-07-22T21:44:38Z")
I have always played where the dealer gives his opponent 11 cards and and himself (or herself) 10 cards. The opponent then makes a discard and the dealer has the choice between the top card or the discard. And so on. And I have played gin rummy several different areas of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/13 "2014-07-23T09:30:14Z")
Like most people have probably done already, I Googled ‘official gin rummy rules’ (without the quotes), I was unable to get on to most of the sites from work as we have a filter blocking ‘Games’ but Wikipedia goes for option 2, FWIW. That’s also the way I learned, from a book of card games. But unlike, say, chess or poker, there doesn’t seem to be a governing body, so I doubt you’ll get any better than what Hoyle’s has to say on the matter. It’s just one of those details that you need to clarify with your opponent before starting to play (or if there were a gin rummy tournament, it would be clarified by the organisers). Whichever of the two versions mentioned in the OP is used doesn’t fundamentally change the nature of the game (unlike the chess hypothetical); both are designed to ensure that the dealer isn’t subjected to the disadvantage of never being able to access the first card turned up. I would personally be against the version with 11 cards dealt to one player as that seems to confer a significant advantage to that player compared with the other two versions, as he gets to decide which 11th card the opposing player gets to see, though I guess it evens out in the long run since the dealing alternates anyway. Note that I am not an authority on the subject - I had forgotten the rule about needing 10 or fewer points to knock, and I had never played the ‘Big Gin’ rule mentioned in the Wikipedia article (where you get an extra bonus for matching 11 cards). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/14 "2014-07-23T14:04:26Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > Like most people have probably done already, I Googled ‘official gin rummy rules’ (without the quotes), I was unable to get on to most of the sites from work as we have a filter blocking ‘Games’ but Wikipedia goes for option 2, FWIW. That’s also the way I learned, from a book of card games. > > But unlike, say, chess or poker, there doesn’t seem to be a governing body, so I doubt you’ll get any better than what Hoyle’s has to say on the matter. It’s just one of those details that you need to clarify with your opponent before starting to play (or if there were a gin rummy tournament, it would be clarified by the organisers). Whichever of the two versions mentioned in the OP is used doesn’t fundamentally change the nature of the game (unlike the chess hypothetical); both are designed to ensure that the dealer isn’t subjected to the disadvantage of never being able to access the first card turned up. Actually, Option 1 does just that: if the non-dealing player is permitted to draw from the stock deck, then he discards a card, the dealer never has a chance to get the first discard – it’s now covered by the other player’s discard. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/15 "2014-07-24T13:13:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, Option 1 does just that: if the non-dealing player is permitted to draw from the stock deck, then he discards a card, the dealer never has a chance to get the first discard – it’s now covered by the other player’s discard. Thank you - I see I had initially misread option 1, for some reason I thought it gave the dealer the option to draw either the card discarded by the opponent, or the card underneath that the opponent didn’t want, for that turn only. But thinking about it, even that is unfair because it makes the dealer choose between two cards, both of which he may want. On that basis, I’m definitely in favour of option 2. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/16 "2014-07-24T18:48:27Z")
I learned gin rummy from my dad, and he taught me #2 - the non-dealer can take the face-up card or pass; if he passes, the dealer can take the face-up card or pass. The basic principle being that you can’t bury a card in the discard pile without giving the other player a crack at it. (In #2, when you say, “Then the dealer can draw the non-exposed card or pass,” I’m sure the inclusion of the ‘non-’ was accidental and unintended.) Incidentally, while I’m sure it’s \*not \*the Hoyle rules, we always played the variation where that first face-up card determines how few points you need to knock: if the card is 2-10, you need that number or fewer, face cards are treated as a 10, and an ace means you must gin. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/17 "2014-07-25T09:52:48Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Incidentally, while I’m sure it’s \*not \*the Hoyle rules, we always played the variation where that first face-up card determines how few points you need to knock: if the card is 2-10, you need that number or fewer, face cards are treated as a 10, and an ace means you must gin. That is a valid variation and commonly played. Makes the game a bit more interesting. I don’t mean to imply the game is uninteresting to begin with, as it’s one of my favourites with or without this rule. You can also play that if the up card is a spade, scores for that round are doubled, which introduces a bit more randomness to the scoring. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/18 "2014-07-25T15:23:07Z")
How do you play the bottom of the deck? In my games, the hand is a DRAW if there are two cards left at the bottom of the stack. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/19 "2014-07-25T16:57:41Z")
I have never played that rule but it’s not a totally unreasonable one, though I would question why you would leave two cards unshown - seems a bit unfair if one of them is the card one player needs to get gin. I don’t think I have ever got to the bottom of the deck because with halfway competent players, someone should have knocked long before then in the vast majority of cases. But if I did, I think I would simply shuffle all the discard pile thoroughly and start again. As I said before, I am no way an authority on this, I have only ever played casually. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769/20 "2014-07-25T17:06:28Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > How do you play the bottom of the deck? > > In my games, the hand is a DRAW if there are two cards left at the bottom of the stack. I honestly can’t remember. It happens so rarely IME (on the order of a once-a-decade event) that it’s only barely worth having a rule for. If I were going to make up a rule, it would be to play to the last card in the deck. If the person who picks up the last card doesn’t knock, then if the other player can’t pick up his discard and knock, it’s a draw. If one of your gin cards is the last card in the deck, the odds against your seeing that card are pretty long, but they shouldn’t be zero. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gin-rummy-gameplay-question/693769.md?page=2)