Had six 10 year old children who ran back and forth with little ones and zeros. Had a switch too, but the kind you beat the kids with if they slow down. Operating system was Zero, which wasn’t good at all.
Force_s_. There were two of them, under control of different segments of the city government. There were… conflicts. Riots, really.
Smash, you really should start a new thread in MPSIMS about your political philosophy, because this is really off topic, and I wouldn’t mind a nice long discussion here.
We can talk about the inherent organizing quality of the human spirit, the size limitations of anarchy, and so on. It’ll be fun!
Curious that such an adamant foe of oppression would be such a great fan of Athenian democracy.
The same Athenian democracy where it was quite legal to hold other human beings as chattel.
The same Athenian democracy whose original requests for voluntary assistance to the Delian League quickly became enforced tribute.
Here’s another Athenian quote for you:
I’ll take modern representative democracy any day, thank you very much.
So what you said was stupid and wrong, and the Yanomamo are not an example of a peaceful anarchic group.
The pattern seems to be [ul][li]You make a statement - 'vigilante" comes from the Greek, the Yanomamo are a peaceful anarchic people, the New York police force was entirely volunteer, etc. []Dopers all stop by and blow these assertions out of the water. []You then move the goal posts (“I really meant the highland Yanomamo!” “Greek democracy was a great example of anarchic self-rule!”)[]Those statements get blown out of the water too.[]You whine about how mean and closed-minded we are because we don’t accept your BS at face value the way homeless teen agers do[]then you run away and start another thread[]Lather, rinse, repeat[/ul][/li]
Regards,
Shodan
Come now, surely two examples doesn’t a pattern make, right?
Violence
But aren’t they both anarchist societies? Assuming this is the case, we can conclude that, of the anarchist societies given as examples so far, some are relatively peaceful and some are relatively violent. With the caveat that we don’t know how these compare to our own societies (at least I don’t, I haven’t seen the numbers). In the Siapi Yanomani, is there as much domestic violence as was described previously in the lowland tribe?
To prove your point, we would need far more examples of anarchist societies and comparisons of violence etc. What I think most people see are examples like Afghanistan, Iraq, most of Africa, Eastern Europe, where power vacuums have been quickly filled by warlords or regional/ethnic fighting that was previously kept in check.
If your position has any merit it seems that it would require cultural support that can only be arrived at through lots and lots of baby steps over a loooooong period of time.
Authority
You stated that we are trained to think that authority is good, etc. but I know for myself, and I assume pretty much everyone, we are fully aware of the various trade-offs regarding authority and consciously accept them or do not accept them depending on the specific situation. There are pros and there are cons to our current system, just as there are with anarchy.
I have a little free time tomorrow. I can Pit you then if that would help.
The Yanomanö, those lucky motherfuckers living in a pre-Neolithilic-revolution society, I envy their freedom and their lack of basically everything that makes my life easy.
They may lead a life most of us wouldn’t choose for the guy who raped our family, but, dudes, their respected-elder system rocks.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to compare the (putatively) anarchist Siapa Ya̧nomamö with similar, non-anarchist tribes, such as the lowland Ya̧nomamö, as SmashTheState has done, rather than societies that differ from them in just about every conceivable way? No one is arguing that Ya̧nomamö life is better overall than life in the US, but thanks for knocking down that strawman for us.
Not that it matters, but I have read a bit here and there that suggests that the whole discussion about the Yanomamo is currently the subject of much controversy, anthropology-wise, center about the methods and ethics of the aforementioned Mr. Chagnon.
Won’t someone think of the Yanomamo children?
I’ll think of them the whole time that I’m raping their women and beating their fathers to death with my axe. Then I’ll introduce them to McGruff the Crime Dog.
Too bad you weren’t still a mod, Giraffe, you could have just banned him yourself. 
My knoledge of Yanomanö sub-groups is extremely limited to say any more about them.
As to the strawmanness of my argument I think you’re missing the point (aside from my living four thousand kilometers away from the US). If **StS **says that they (Siapa Yanomanö) are a good example of an anarchist society, I think it is perfectly acceptable to show how far anarchism has taken them.
I’m sure they differ a great deal. I was almost going to post a more detailed explanation, but it’s difficult to take seriously someone who is concerned with zombies invading the US and who rejects science and materialism in favour of “oh-so-terribly-fashionable Buddhist bullshit” (as Capt. Ridley’s Shooting Party puts it).
Sorry, which one of us is the troll, again?
As near as I can tell, you are composed entirely of equal parts smarm and snark. I have yet to see you provide any kind of response which wouldn’t earn you a clop in the chops if you were so unwise as to take that tone with someone in the real world within arm’s length. You are, simply, lying. I haven’t moved any goalposts, I have cogently answered the questions I’ve been posed, politely ignored the “you are an asshole” drive-bys the same way one ignores uncouth people who drool or fart in public, and been extremely patient in researching citations to support my statements.
You, on the other hand, follow a pattern very much like that of which you accuse me, which leads me to believe you are engaging in some classic projection.
First, you accuse me of trolling for holding an opinion which differs from yours. Then you say I’m stupid. In the rudest and most condescending manner you claim that I have made up everything I wrote from whole cloth. When I provide citations to support my claims by the very person you claimed refuted my claims, you switch tactics and move your goalposts. When I – once again – politely and in good faith point out that I have never claimed what you’re saying I claimed (that anarchism will turn people into little angels). your response is more smarm, more snark, and an attempt to turn the discussion from your (losing) counter-claims to my personality, about as classic an ad hominem argument as anyone could ask for.
[QUOTE]
[ul][li]You whine about how mean and closed-minded we are because we don’t accept your BS at face value the way homeless teen agers do[]then you run away and start another thread[]Lather, rinse, repeat[/ul][/li][/QUOTE]
No, what I do is exactly what I’m about to do here. When I have spent a lot of time answering questions, finding citations, and supporting my assertions in good faith, and then receive nothing but insults, condescension, and the sort of mean-spirited and adolescent ridicule one normally finds in a middle school locker room, I refuse to share any more of my time with those responsible. I’m not Liberal or lekatt, I won’t be your dancing monkey-boy. Go vomit your bile elsewhere, because all you’ve done is prove that you are intellectually dishonest and any effort I spend attempting to talk to, with, or at you is a complete waste.
Good day,
Smash.
You know, I had spent some time reading that thread and was preparing a response, but since you’ve decided you just had to dip your oar in the water and prove that you’re kind of a dipshit, I’m not going to bother.
Incidentally, your dishonest statement here (I’m not concerned with zombies invading the US, I’m interested to know whether the Pentagon is; I certainly reject naive materialism, and it is BECAUSE of my interest in science – the philosophy of empiricism – that I do so) doesn’t speak too well of your political integrity. You provide a perfect example of why political parties are incapable of revolutionary action, and why the Wobblies sent your type packing with Eugene Debbs.
Aren’t our current police forces entirely volunteer? Or did we start drafting cops when I wasn’t looking?
Yes, But they’re paid by THE STATE, rather than with judicious handfuls of grain and salt from the people’s commissary.
That’s Mr. Eugene V. Debs to your ass, Trotskyite splitter!