# Girl, 4, shoots herself with grandmother's gun in Sam's Club **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 10, 2008, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427 "2008-06-10T11:25:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/1 "2008-06-10T11:25:55Z")
[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080610/ap\_on\_re\_us/sam\_s\_club\_child\_shot](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080610/ap_on_re_us/sam_s_club_child_shot) I’m in favor of legal CCW, but this woman violated several safety rules here. And she is a magistrate?!? I hope the little girl is okay… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/2 "2008-06-10T11:27:28Z")
Debate? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/3 "2008-06-10T12:17:48Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] I’m in favor of legal CCW, but this woman violated several safety rules here. [/Quote] Can you elaborate on which rules she broke? All I see is a girl doing a very stupid thing and paying the price. I hope she survives and learns that you treat guns with great care. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/4 "2008-06-10T12:29:14Z")
The girl was 4 years old so I hardly think it’s fair to call her stupid. Marc ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/5 "2008-06-10T12:35:26Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Can you elaborate on which rules she broke? All I see is a girl doing a very stupid thing and paying the price. I hope she survives and learns that you treat guns with great care. [/QUOTE] A 4-year-old got a gun away from an adult, and somehow managed to fire it - meaning either the gun was cocked and, if it was a semi, take the safety off, or else the child had enough time with the gun to prepare it to fire. A four-year-old. Who’s the stupid one, ya think? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/6 "2008-06-10T12:50:43Z")
[QUOTE=MGibson] The girl was 4 years old so I hardly think it’s fair to call her stupid. [/QUOTE] Agreed, but no one’s calling her stupid, are they? I’ve said she did a stupid thing, which is very different, don’t you agree? ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/7 "2008-06-10T13:01:08Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Agreed, but no one’s calling her stupid, are they? I’ve said she did a stupid thing, which is very different, don’t you agree? [/QUOTE] Maybe. I mean, 4 year olds are not known for their level-headed common sense. But I would have thought the grandmother might have known better. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/8 "2008-06-10T13:01:09Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] All I see is a girl doing a very stupid thing and paying the price. [/QUOTE] The 4 year old didn’t do a thing that was demonstrably more “stupid” than what all kids that age do. Kids that age explore their surroundings, they touch, taste, and fiddle with anything they can get their grubby little hands on. It’s the only way to learn how things work. A child that age doesn’t have the ability to understand that fiddling with one thing is OK and fiddling with another thing is going to put them in a coffin. This is why we have things called ADULTS to ensure that little kids don’t play with loaded pistols. You have a loaded gun in your purse, you keep the fucking thing on your shoulder, and don’t let the child reach in and rummage around. The only person who needed to know to treat guns with care was the gun owner, and she didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/9 "2008-06-10T13:01:18Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Can you elaborate on which rules she broke? All I see is a girl doing a very stupid thing and paying the price. I hope she survives and learns that you treat guns with great care. [/QUOTE] I second the sentiment that this can hardly be considered stupid behavior for a four year old. Especially when we don’t even know what education she had received about gun safety, if any. Having a loaded, unholstered, unsafetied handgun within reach of a four year old seems crazy . . . although I’m sure the grandma already feels utterly horrible about this with no help from us. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/10 "2008-06-10T13:07:30Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Agreed, but no one’s calling her stupid, are they? I’ve said she did a stupid thing, which is very different, don’t you agree? [/QUOTE] I didn’t see this reply when I posted my above comment, so let me clarify that while objectively “playing with a gun and shooting yourself” is stupid behavior, there’s a _huge_ overlap between “stupid behavior” and “normal four-year-old behavior”, as any adult caretaker of a four-year-old should understand and anticipate. Actually, “stupid” is still a bit harsh – as I don’t think it’s a matter of intelligence if you’ve generally never been taught (as many four-year-olds haven’t) that guns are dangerous and are not toys. It would be stupid to play with a gun _knowing_ (as any adult of sound mind should) that guns are dangerous. There’s nothing particularly stupid about a four-year-old playing with an item which she _has not been taught_ is dangerous, and which may even superficially resemble some of her toys (squirt guns, etc.) EDIT: Also, I’d say your phrasing of “she did a stupid thing and paid the price” suggest the four-year-old somehow deserved what she got, which would be a pretty callous sentiment. I’ll give the benefit of the doubt that that’s not how you _meant_ it, but I’m just saying if you get some angry replies that’s probably why. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/11 "2008-06-10T15:00:56Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] A 4-year-old got a gun away from an adult, and somehow managed to fire it - meaning either the gun was cocked and, if it was a semi, take the safety off, or else the child had enough time with the gun to prepare it to fire. [/QUOTE] “Prepare it to fire”? You mean pull the trigger? And why would it have to be cocked? It was a small caliber so it probably was a compact/subcompact. Small enough for even a child to be able to fire. I still don’t see the debate here. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/12 "2008-06-10T15:09:08Z")
[QUOTE=MGibson] The girl was 4 years old so I hardly think it’s fair to call her stupid. Marc [/QUOTE] C’mon. “Blame the victim” is the favorite tactic of gun nuts when somebody gets hurt by a firearm, even a kid. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/13 "2008-06-10T15:12:23Z")
Recreational Outrage belongs in **The BBQ Pit** , not **Great Debates**. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/14 "2008-06-10T15:12:56Z")
Damn I wish I had not clicked on that link. Somebody update me if the child survives. Otherwise don’t bother. That poor family, each and every one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/15 "2008-06-10T15:14:39Z")
If you are willing to assume the responsibility of owning or possessing a gun, you have the ultimate responsibility of keeping it away from unauthorized people. Period. This woman abdicated it by leaving it in a compromising position. She bears the ultimate responsibility in this. Lesson: if you carry a gun in public, keep it in your possession at all times. Not beside you, not within arm’s reach, on your person. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/16 "2008-06-10T15:17:34Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Damn I wish I had not clicked on that link. Somebody update me if the child survives. Otherwise don’t bother. That poor family, each and every one of them. [/QUOTE] _Almost_ each and every one of them is blameless and has my heartfelt sympathy. One of them, not so much, although obviously the punishment this woman is going through is vastly out of proportion to her own stupidity. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/17 "2008-06-10T15:24:50Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] Damn I wish I had not clicked on that link. Somebody update me if the child survives. Otherwise don’t bother. That poor family, each and every one of them. [/QUOTE] The child is fine, evidently - doctors told relatives there appeared to be “no major damage”. I was just worried they’d be making nasty remarks about South Carolina again. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/18 "2008-06-10T15:37:57Z")
How can that be? Just the … Nevermind. Let me just be thankful. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/19 "2008-06-10T16:03:20Z")
From the article: > [@](#): > > The Sam’s Club store does not have a sign prohibiting guns inside. How about leopards? Do they have a sign prohibiting leopards? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427/20 "2008-06-10T16:07:13Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Agreed, but no one’s calling her stupid, are they? I’ve said she did a stupid thing, which is very different, don’t you agree? [/QUOTE] HOw could it be a stupid thing? How can a 4 year old possibly know what she was doing in that situation? I’m lost here. Are you using the phrase “stupid thing,” in some new and novel sense? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-4-shoots-herself-with-grandmothers-gun-in-sams-club/452427.md?page=2)