Girl defies laws of thermodynamics: Why isn't this being touted as a huge medical breaktrough??

Many obese people “forget” the snacks that they eat in between regular meals .

Maybe its some sort of coping mechanism to relieve themselves of the responsibility of their self caused condition .

And that comment has to do with this op … how?

I understand … anytime the word “obesity” comes up there is a knee-jerk response to blurt “self-caused” … no need to have society look at what has caused the rapid rise in obesity and to consider systems-based solutions, it is all personal responsibility … I know the drill. But do you really want to place this child’s circumstance as illustration of that argument? Yes, there is research that demonstrates that high fat diets trigger hypothalamic inflammmation which then apparently cause some dysregulation of appetite centers as part of obesity pathogenesis, and some that investigates how those brain effects begin even based on in utero exposures. But this child is not so subtle an issue and has little direct relevance to the broad obesity debate. She had a friggin brain tumor removed which caused clear and blunt damage to the part of the brain that regulates metabolism and appetite! You really want to call her obesity “self caused” because she is eating more than she burns?


Oh, be quiet, DSeid. You’re just a licensed pediatrician with a specialty interest in prevention and treatment of pediatric obesity. What the hell do YOU know?

(There aren’t enough rolleyes on this board to express how frustrated I am by this thread. This poor kid’s lucky to be alive, her obesity is clearly a result of unavoidable brain damage, and she and her family are STILL taking flack and being accused of lying by people who’s medical degrees consist of a few Google and WebMD searches. It’s disgusting.)

I thought that the article said that she had a benign tumour removed , not that she had irreversible brain damage .

And if the condition is actually caused by a brain malfunction , a gastric by pass won’t solve the problem presumably , because she’ll still have the non stop desire to eat, even after her weight has reduced .

It sounds like a quick hit that will do her no good in the long term .

The brain damage was caused by the process of removing the tumor. Craniopharyngiomas are only technically benign; while the tumor grows slowly and doesn’t tend to directly invade other structures (the usual criteria for malignancy), they generally form in a spot in the calvarium that is adjacent to some very sensitive and delicate structures in the brain (the hypothalamus, the optic nerves, the pituitary gland) and is difficult for surgeons to access. Untreated, these 'benign" tumors can kill. And damage to those other structures can easily happen during the removal of the tumor.

Not true! Gastric bypass seems to work primarily by altering the level of hormones released by the stomach, which in turn effects the hormone secretion of the hypothalamus (as well as several other organs). In people with hypothalamically-driven obesity, gastric bypass reduces the excessive drive to eat (which is the cause of the weight gain).

Man, has anyone told her doctors this? I can’t believe they missed it!

Moved to MPSIMS from Great Debates.

Because it wouldn’t be the first time a human has broken the laws of physics. Prahlad Jani, derives all his energy needs from the Sun–and has for over 70 years!

Exactly. “Benign” in this context doesn’t mean “harmless.” It means “not cancer.”

You got that right, Ferret Herder. CNS tumors are a funny lot; patients have died from technically benign CNS tumors just because they had the misfortune of having their tumor form in a region surgeons simply can’t safely access in order to remove the thing.

Well they seems to have missed a breakthrough in the Laws of Thermodynamics that should get them a Nobel prize at least .

And as to the hormones etc.etc. being changed by this operation , an obese woman in the U.K. still managed to eat herself to death after having had a gastric band operation , so maybe the quick fix isn’t the answer.

If its purely down to hormonal release , perhaps they could bring this about without an operation .

And it would be a less expensive treatment .

Though to be honest I can’t imagine how a child could eat a whole jar of peanut butter without her parents intervening.

Perhaps she did it when they weren’t looking .

We can’t do that yet, but one of the goals of obesity research is to better understand the hormonal regulation of appetite and find safe pharmacological ways to adjust it. When that day comes, gastric bypass surgery will likely become a thing of the past, replaced by safer and more effective medical management.

Defiance and violation are not the same thing.

May I ask your qualifications on this matter? That is; what kind of doctor are you?

Of course you can Karrius , feel free, go ahead and ask.

Don’t be shy now .

Though of course as an unemployed school leaver , I’m sure that you know a lot more then the rest of us .

Really? To MPSIMS?

I would like to note however that I make no argument from authority. It is however extremely exasperating when (doublechecks … yup, MPSIMS … restrains response) “posters” don’t bother to read the fully cited posts made in the thread and say things that are completely willfully ignorant:

As already documented in this thread, hypothalamic obesity as a result of this sort of surgery for this sort of tumor is not an “if.” It is a very well described consequence. Hypothalmic damage from this surgery disrupts the regulatory ability of the hypothalamus and as a direct result causes significantly decreased metabolic rate, decreased calories expended in activity, while drastically increasing appetite. BMI commonly goes from 20 to 25 range to the 40 to 60 range even on drastically calorically restricted diets. As documented bariatric surgery has worked as a treatment when other methods have failed … long term. If you can’t be arsed to click the goddamn links at least read the brief summaries presented here before you spout off idiocies. (Trying to stay within MPSIMS appropriateness.)

Oh hell. Warn me if you must but what unmitigated offensive ignorance. No, no claim was made in the article or by the parents that violate the laws of thermodynamics. She has been gaining over 2 pounds a week. Well established in hypothalamic obesity caused by this sort of surgery. Even on a severely calorie restricted diet she gains. Also well established in this condition. They burn fewer calories, that more than the increased appetite appears to be the main driver of the massive obesity.

Bariatric surgery failed for one person who did not have this condition so therefore bariatric surgery is just a quick fix that is not the answer. WTF? Amazingly no medical or surgical interventions work for every person.

You do not understand shit about obesity let alone obesity in this particular condition, about how bariatric surgery works, or about what hormones we have to use and the limits over how we can use them.

There is no debate here, true. And there is plenty that is mindless and maybe even pointless being expressed. Shame the ignorant feel the need to share that ignorance though.

Some people are SO intent on their vision that fat means lazy and undisciplined that even a child who has extremely severe obesity as a direct consequence of surgery for a brain tumor is obese because she is lazy and undiscilined and inadequately parented. Surgery that works can be dismissed because they don’t think it should.

Btw L4L I don’t care what letters you have other than the letters I know you have plenty of: B and S.

Poor old **DSeid ** puncture your bullshit balloon did I ?

Tell you what lets make invasive and unnecessary procedures the norm shall we ?

Its a lot easier then addressing the cause as opposed to the symptoms.

And please don’t raise Strawmen, you don’t know what I’m thinking, so don’t put words into my mouth .


Cause: hypothalamic damage. Symptoms: decreased resting metabolism, decreased non-exercise activity calories burned, massive increase in the drive to eat. Restrictive diet and increased exercise attempted and resultant obesity continues to worsen to an extremely severe, life-threatening degree.

Do tell. How do you suggest addressing that hypothalamic damage?

Call me crazy, but in my mind a procedure that has been shown to work to treat a severely disabling and life-threatening condition that other less invasive approaches have not been able to impact is not “unnecessary.”

Correct - an effective procedure that works, significantly improving the quality of life and life expectancy, is a lot easier than doing something that is curently impossible, repairing the damage in the brain.

BTW it is … informative … and a bit entertaining albeit sadly so … that you understand actual facts and articles from the medical and scientific literature to be a bullshit balloon. No wonder why it’s taking longer than we thought!

That’s really interesting. I always thought GB worked because it physically restricted the amount you eat. I had no idea it also affects hormones and reduces hunger. Ignorance fought!