# Girl didn't want her goat slaughtered; officials sent deputies after it **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 1, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992 "2023-04-01T15:54:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/121 "2023-04-05T01:02:02Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > They didn’t need to sue to get their fee, the mom had already said she’d pay it if they gave back the goat. I didn’t say they needed to do so, I said they _had the right_ to sue. But that’s not the point - the point is that they had the right keep the goat, or recoup their losses, or do nothing at all. They had a choice. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/122 "2023-04-05T01:19:33Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …the complaint states that there are “no such legally enforceable rules which would have precluded Plaintiff’s from terminating in the livestock auction.” And I haven’t seen anyone suggest otherwise. That’s their complaint, sure. A plaintiff can and will say anything. How do we know it’s true? That’s why we have trials. But yes, it’s worth noting that the terms of the agreement are important to understanding everyone’s rights and obligations. We can’t speak too confidently without having that. Yet somehow in this well-publicized case, the media coverage has included everything _except_ the terms that the family supposedly entered into! Between the family and the fair, you’d think that if one party felt they’d had a slam-dunk case, then the media would have gotten a copy of those rules. But strangely, that piece of information is conspicuously missing from the whole conversation. It sounds to me like both parties are a lot less confident than they let on. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/123 "2023-04-05T01:23:32Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > So although the family still _technically_ owned the goat, they had transferred their rights to the auctioneer, who then held the rights to butcher and sell it. Even though both buyer and seller wanted to abandon the contract, the auctioneer had the right to force them to perform, and they exercised that right. Again, no, the auctioneer (the Fair Association) didn’t have a right to force the girl to perform. Minors get to call backsies on contracts and there wasn’t anything the Fair Association could have done about that. IINAL, but it appears that this is the legal problem the Fair Association has now run into. By trying to solve this on their own, rather than check with someone who actually knows the law, they have dug themselves into quite a hole. Worse for them, the family had offered to reimburse the Association for their expenses so any sort of financial interest they would have had was gone. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > No, she has no point at all. She’s trying to color this as an abuse of the criminal justice system because the Sherriff’s office got involved. The problem with that theory is that nobody was arrested or charged, so obviously there are no criminal proceedings involved whatsoever. It’s routine for a Sherriff’s office to enforce civil actions (compare this to evicting someone for not paying rent). This doesn’t seem to be correct. The Sheriffs apparently got involved as a criminal matter and obtained a search warrant for stolen property. It doesn’t matter if no one was charged later or not. They were not asked to enforce a civil action because the Fair Association did not go through the courts to settle the question of legal ownership and did not obtain an order from a judge allowing the goat to be taken from the girl. Comparable to rent disputes, law enforcement doesn’t get involved without a court order and there are problems with squatters occupying homes and the law enforcement not being able to do anything until the owners go through the civil courts, a drawn out process. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The family is at fault for entering a pet goat in an auction where it was explicitly to be slaughtered. They knew what was going to happen. That’s 100% on them, and they had no right to take the goat back. This is legally wrong. The girl had the right to legally retain the goat and the Fair Association had no right to force her sell it. The other question if they should or shouldn’t have entered the auction is a separate moral question, but the Fair Association has no standing on what lessons the family wants to teach the girl. The parents are the ones to decide that and the Fair Association has gotten itself into legal trouble by attempting to prove a moral point. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/124 "2023-04-05T01:27:20Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > The Mom waited until the goat was already auctioned off. So the solution was for them to buy it at auction no matter the cost. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/125 "2023-04-05T01:42:20Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > How do we know it’s true? …well for starters, as I said, I don’t think that anyone has made the case that a minor, who is the legal owner of the goat, is compelled to take something to auction if they decide that they no longer want to do so. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > the media coverage has included everything _except_ the terms that the family supposedly entered into! The terms (revised for 2023) are on the Fair website. I read them before I posted in response to you. But the age of the owner trumps whatever the terms allegedly say. The girl was a minor. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/126 "2023-04-05T01:48:18Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Again, no, the auctioneer (the Fair Association) didn’t have a right to force the girl to perform. Minors get to call backsies on contracts and there wasn’t anything the Fair Association could have done about that. I think @HMS_Irruncible is correct that we really do need to know what the terms of the agreement were. Who had what property rights in the goat, and when? At this point, I could imagine anything. I would not even be shocked to learn, for example, that the girl and/or her mother never actually owned the goat, they were only it’s caretakers, and that in fact 4-H or the fair organizares or… someone else owned the goat the whole time. I could further imagine there being contract language making clear that what the buyer (the politician guy) was buying was not the goat itself, but rather the meat produced from the goat’s slaughter, with the fiar or 4-H or whoever maintaining ownership until the slaughter was complete and the meat packaged. None of that changes that it is absolutely inappropriate to put a child, possibly for the first time in their life, in the position of caring for an animal to be slaughtered, and not allowing for the possibility that the psychological harm such a thing might cause to the child would warrant sparing the animal in exchange for restitution. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > a minor, who is the legal owner of the goat How certain are we that she or her mother were actually ever the owner of the goat, and not merely the keeper/caretaker/custodian? I’m not, and the mother’s mere assertion, even in good faith, that she was is hardly enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/127 "2023-04-05T02:00:31Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > How certain are we that she or her mother were actually ever the owner of the goat, and not merely the keeper/caretaker/custodian? …because the girl was _required_ to be the owner of the goat in order to take part in the auction. As per the terms of the Fair. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/128 "2023-04-05T04:05:47Z")
@Banquet_Bear did mention that they read the requirements of participating in the program on the fair’s website. I have no reason to doubt them. I couldn’t bring myself to read the article, but I think, from the comments, mom (as usual) is taking a beating. Yeah, she made a mistake, a big mistake, but she tried to fix it, and the fair decided to flex their muscles and screw a little kid over. I’m not a lawyer and know as much about the law civil or criminal as any average law abiding schlub. I hope those who say the fair is in hot water are correct. It was a totally unnecessary reaction. Seriously, above it was said that the fair reacted this way 'cause mom may or may not have made a stink on social media, but if they did it because of social media rumbling they did not come out smelling like roses. The fair had the kid’s animal, seized and slaughtered. Even when offered fair recompense. They did it for the principle of the thing. I.e. to prove a point. I think perhaps they may look pretty slimy of social media after this point proving. If I was a 4H club or parent, I would avoid that particular fair because of the stench this is going to leave on said fair. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/129 "2023-04-05T04:19:24Z")
Maybe the mother signed the contract ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/130 "2023-04-05T12:25:53Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The terms (revised for 2023) are on the Fair website. I read them before I posted in response to you. But the age of the owner trumps whatever the terms allegedly say. The girl was a minor. Minors can’t legally enter into contracts, so it’s normally co-signed by the parent. If that didn’t happen in this case, then the contract is of course void. I’ve not seen any reporting as to whether that’s the case. Would you be willing to share the link you have to the terms, or any contract that they’d share? It’s easier to discuss the documents when we’ve all seen them. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/131 "2023-04-05T12:29:16Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Again, no, the auctioneer (the Fair Association) didn’t have a right to force the girl to perform. Minors get to call backsies on contracts and there wasn’t anything the Fair Association could have done about that. No, minors don’t get to call backsies on contracts. Minors _do not get to enter contracts_ without a parent co-signing, and it’s the parent who’s actually bound by the contract. Did a parent co-sign here? That hasn’t been reported (like much important info about this case). What I described is how auctions normally work. Regarding this specific auction, we don’t know exactly how it worked because we haven’t seen the terms or any executed agreements. Anything beyond that is just speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/132 "2023-04-05T12:55:20Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > No, minors don’t get to call backsies on contracts. Minors _do not get to enter contracts_ without a parent co-signing, and it’s the parent who’s actually bound by the contract. It’s always fun when someone confidently declares something totally wrong. Minors CAN enter contracts, with or without their parents, and they DO get the right of take-backsies: > [@](#): > > # 2011 California Code > > Family Code > DIVISION 11. MINORS [6500 - 7143] > CHAPTER 1. Capacity to Contract > Section 6700 > > **Universal Citation:** [CA Fam Code § 6700 (through 2012 Leg Sess)](https://law.justia.com/citations.html#CA%20Fam%20Code%20%C2%A7%206700%20(through%202012%20Leg%20Sess)) > > Except as provided in Section 6701, **a minor may make a contract in the same manner as an adult, subject to the power of disaffirmance under Chapter 2** (commencing with Section 6710), and subject to Part 1 (commencing with Section 300) of Division 3 (validity of marriage). Emphasis mine - the technical term for “take-backsies” is “disaffirmance”. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/133 "2023-04-05T12:56:43Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > No, minors don’t get to call backsies on contracts. Minors _do not get to enter contracts_ without a parent co-signing, and it’s the parent who’s actually bound by the contract. Wait what? Cite? ETA: Ninjaed by Babale. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/134 "2023-04-05T13:01:16Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > No, minors don’t get to call backsies on contracts. Minors _do not get to enter contracts_ without a parent co-signing, and it’s the parent who’s actually bound by the contract. In many places ( I think most in the US) minors _can_ sign contracts. But nearly all of them are voidable (which means the minor can’t be held to the contract) and therefore most businesses will not enter into most contracts with a minor which is why the parent often actually enters the contract - but a 12 year old is perfectly able to buy a video game under “final sale, no returns” and disaffirm that contract and return the item for a refund. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/135 "2023-04-05T13:03:27Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Minors can’t legally enter into contracts, so it’s normally co-signed by the parent. If that didn’t happen in this case, then the contract is of course void. I’ve not seen any reporting as to whether that’s the case. …everything you need to know about this case has already been linked to in this thread. [https://i.ibb.co/kynfHDJ/Screenshot-2023-04-06-at-12-41-13-AM.png](https://i.ibb.co/kynfHDJ/Screenshot-2023-04-06-at-12-41-13-AM.png) Yes, the mother had "co-possessory interests, which my understanding means they do not own it, but has some rights to control it. However: under California law, > [@cal law](#): > > In California, a minor has the right to enter into a contract, subject to the statutory right of disaffirmance. _See_ Cal. Family Code § 6700. This “right of disaffirmance” explicitly states that “a contract of a minor may be disaffirmed by the minor before majority or within a reasonable time afterwards or, . . . by the minor’s heirs or personal representative.” Cal. Family Code § 6710. Moreover, “[d]isaffirmance may be made by any act or declaration indicating intent to disaffirm . . . [and] [w]hatever the method, disaffirmance by a minor rescinds the entire contract, rendering it a nullity.” > **[disaffirmance-by-a-minor-as-a-defense-to-arbitration](https://www.cpmlegal.com/blogs-Advocates-For-Justice/disaffirmance-by-a-minor-as-a-defense-to-arbitration)** > > disaffirmance-by-a-minor-as-a-defense-to-arbitration > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Would you be willing to share the link you have to the terms, or any contract that they’d share? It’s easier to discuss the documents when we’ve all seen them. Here. > **[Enter your stuff Shasta District Fair Anderson Ca](https://www.shastadistrictfairandeventcenter.com/enter-your-stuff)** > > Blue Ribbon fair exhibits shasta district fair anderson, enter photography, food, student quilts, jam jelly, wine beer, pie shasta district fair Under “Livestock Rules.” ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/136 "2023-04-05T13:03:52Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I believe the girl was not properly prepared to raise a goat for slaughter. Exactly! The fact that, when dealing with a child and her feelings, they couldn’t foresee the very real possibility of a problem is ridiculous! They were simply asking for trouble. My father would occasionally go hunting with a neighbor who was in an economically tight position so, whatever either one of them bagged, the game would go to “Huddy” to take home for food. So, one day they came home from hunting and, being a curious kid, I wanted to see what they had caught. Unfortunately, it was 3 rabbits. I say “unfortunately” because I went ballistic. Why? “Bunny rabbits” were the Easter Bunny or a bunny like a friend of mine had for a pet, or a bunny you pet and hug and hold. Suddenly, I was looking at the dead corpses of three (in my mind) “bunny rabbits”, and I freaked out. Ironically, I also happened be 9 at the time. My dad got a raw deal because I was the one who ran up to them and looked, but my mom took it out on my dad, anyway. I remember her saying, “I’d appreciate it if you didn’t show our daughter any more bloody corpses.” It wasn’t exactly a polite request. I tell this story not to sidetrack the OP, but rather to illustrate the fact that you don’t give a 9-year old an animal to raise and foolishly not expect something to go very wrong. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/137 "2023-04-05T13:09:17Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Emphasis mine - the technical term for “take-backsies” is “disaffirmance”. Good word. That’s what I meant by “voidable”: > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > While IANAL, I have a vague sense that any contract a _child_ might happen to enter into is voidable That said, I don’t know how that would play out in property cases, particularly where the property is perishable or consumable. I mean, if child sells you a glass of lemonade under an oral contract, you effect payment, and then drink the lemonade, obviously there is some point in that sequence where the child cannot demand the return of the lemonade. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/138 "2023-04-05T14:49:06Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I always suspected that the fostering agencies know damn well that people will bond with the animals and want to keep them. If the animal is in a good home it’s a win win win. But, there is a big difference between giving up an animal that you have been taking care of for it to go to a good, loving home, and giving up an animal that you have been taking care of for it to be slaughtered and eaten. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/139 "2023-04-05T14:50:46Z")
Literally no one thinks otherwise. That was a response to a side conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/140 "2023-04-05T14:59:47Z")
Perhaps the question is what seems un-American about the Taliban? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992.md?page=8)