# Girl didn't want her goat slaughtered; officials sent deputies after it **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 1, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992 "2023-04-01T15:54:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/141 "2023-04-05T15:25:40Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Under “Livestock Rules.” The relevant parts seem to be that the child must be the owner of the animal, and that all animals sold must go to “processing” directly from the fair grounds. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/142 "2023-04-05T15:46:35Z")
Of course, if they did that, they only get the meat, not the living goat. As the person who did win the auction didn’t want the goat slaughtered, the family winning the auction wouldn’t have spared it either. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/143 "2023-04-05T16:05:23Z")
I realized that I hadn’t read the OP’s link and it clarified a couple of points for me. 1. The family was the owner of the goat – not just a care-taker. > [@](#): > > Long purchased the goat for her daughter to enter into the 4-H program with the Shasta District Fair. Children are taught how to care for farm animals. The animals are then entered in an auction to be sold and then slaughtered for meat in hopes of teaching children about the work and care needed to raise livestock and provide food, as farmers and ranchers do. 1. The majority of the auction proceeds go to the family. > [@](#): > > Long also offered to repay the fair district and the bidder whatever costs had been incurred. That included the winning bid of $902 made by state Sen. Brian Dahle (R-Bieber) and the 7% cut that the fair was entitled to of $63.14. All this for $63. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/144 "2023-04-05T16:23:45Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Under “Livestock Rules.” I’m still not seeing the actual contract, only Livestock Rules. I don’t seem to be able to copy bits of the page. Those rules, however, do state that “junior exhibitors must prove ownership of animals” and that they must be owned by the exhibitor. So it seems clear that the child must have owned the goat. It also states that all animals sold in the auction must go directly to processing from the livestock barns, and exhibitors aren’t allowed in the barns while they’re being loaded. Seems to me that this particular goat can’t have been in the barns at loading time, or the fair would just have taken it from there, instead of having to hunt it down later many miles away. And the rules also say – direct quote, caps italics and bolding all theirs: > IMPORTANT: _ **All 4-H, FFA, Grange and Independent Exhibitors MUST be ready with animal and in the line as listed on Sales Order when called for the Junior Livestock Auction. If exhibitor is not ready, dressed in uniform & in line they will not be allowed to sell** _. So, if as according to the statement above they tried to back out before the sale – how did the goat get sold? Did the fair put the goat up for auction despite the exhibitor being not ready, in uniform, and in line; and possibly without the goat even being there? Did the child show up ready, on time, in uniform, and in line, with the goat – despite the fact that she should have been able to prevent the sale simply by refusing to do so? And if she did, how come the goat wasn’t there for the fair to seize in that location on the day of sale? This whole situation doesn’t make any sense in combination with those rules. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/145 "2023-04-05T17:04:17Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > All this for $63. Technically it wasn’t about the money, it was about the “rules”. > [@CEO of Fair Association](#): > > “please understand the fair industry is set up to teach our youth responsibility and for the future generations of ranchers and farmers to learn the process and effort it takes to raise quality meat. Making an exception for you will only teach [our] youth that they do not have to abide by the rules that are set up for all participants.” I hope that the Fair Association gets to learn about other important rules, such as rules of ownership. A person who buys a goat and then signs up for your little exhibit is not legally required to sell, you are not allowed to just sell it without their approval, and the rules say you can’t lie to a judge about who owns the goat, send the cops to steal the goat for you, then kill the goat. This is great opportunity to teach these adults what it means to abide by the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/146 "2023-04-05T17:09:11Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > You must understand that property rights are supreme above all, and regardless of the pettiness of the matter, the property owner may request the state use any amount of violence to enforce their rights, and the state will energetically oblige. True, with a caveat: Property rights of the _in-group_ are supreme. If you are in the out-group, then the laws are there to bind you, not to protect you. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/147 "2023-04-05T17:30:29Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > Was there not one normal human in this whole chain of events that could have prevented that outcome? 😡 So much this. It’s pretty obvious that there were cock-ups all down the line. How incredibly cruel! She’s never going to trust the cops or contracts again. Wouldn’t be surprise if she becomes a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/148 "2023-04-05T17:54:36Z")
It looks like the mother took the goat after the sale from the article in OP > My daughter sobbed in her pen with her goat,” Long wrote to the Shasta County fair’s manager on June 27. “The barn was mostly empty and at the last minute I decided to break the rules and take the goat that night and deal with the consequences later.” From the complaint > 1. Thereafter, Plaintiff Long removed Cedar from the Shasta District Fair and, in efforts to avoid any conflict, informed the Shasta Fair Association representatives in no uncertain terms that she was willing to pay for any losses and/or damages associated with Plaintiff E.L.’s decision to save Cedar ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/149 "2023-04-05T18:14:28Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It also states that all animals sold in the auction must go directly to processing from the livestock barns, and exhibitors aren’t allowed in the barns while they’re being loaded. Which would seem to imply they’ve run into this as before. The ownership rules are in place to keep some farm kid from entering an animal what was in fact, raised by the parent and getting credit for the work. It would be interesting in a followup to see of either mother or daughter become vegan as a result of this. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/150 "2023-04-05T18:26:07Z")
Oh dear, “I decided to break the rules and take the goat”. That takes a bit of the sting out of any legal recourse the girl and mother have. The Fair still acted like jerks in the matter, but it’s not illegal to be a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/151 "2023-04-05T18:38:41Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Oh dear, “I decided to break the rules and take the goat”. That takes a bit of the sting out of any legal recourse the girl and mother have. Eh, sounds like the family may have broken some rules imposed by the fair and/or 4H. The fair and/or 4H could certainly sanction them, and not allow them to participate in future events due to their breaking of the rules. However, the rules don’t have the force of law, breaking the rules is not a criminal act. OTOH, it sounds to me as though representatives of the fair and/or 4H broke _laws_ in order to enforce their rules. And all the way up and down the chain. They got a judge to sign off on a breach entry warrant based on the fact that a farm said encouraging things? No evidence the goat was there, at all, just the farm siding with the family was enough to have the police raid it. Then they go to another farm that wasn’t on the warrant at all. This isn’t just a _waste_ of police resources, this is an _abuse_ of law enforcement. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The Fair still acted like jerks in the matter, but it’s not illegal to be a jerk. And it’s also not illegal to break rules. Only one side in this dispute did anything that I see as illegal, and it’s the side that did so in order to kill a goat. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/152 "2023-04-05T18:59:17Z")
The USAToday article answers some of the recent questions in this thread and clarifies the timeline: - June 24: exhibition at fair, mother and daughter took Cedar home with them - June 26: Cedar moved to farm in Sonoma, fair livestock manager calls mother and demands return - June 27: Mother makes written offer to fair - July 8: Court issues warrant, officers executed the warrant that same day. > [@](#): > > The girl exhibited Cedar at the Shasta District Fair in the junior livestock auction on June 24. > > “She wanted to pull Cedar out that day and was told she couldn’t,” by fair officials, Gordon said. Fair officials said terminating their participation was not allowed, even though the family offered multiple times to pay for any losses or damages, Gordon said. > > Said Long: “We were told to leave them in the pens that last night and that a truck would come load all those animals. It was like 530 animals, so a truck would take them all. I didn’t know going in that that’s how the end would look like." > [@](#): > > The officers then delivered Cedar to the Shasta District fairgrounds to “third parties” that the sheriff’s office had deemed to be Cedar’s owners, the lawsuit said. Those unknown third parties have either slaughtered Cedar or sent him to slaughter, according to the lawsuit. > **[A family tried to save their auctioned goat from slaughter. Now they are...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/09/03/california-family-sues-police-goat-auction-slaughter/7988288001/)** > > A California mom has filed suit over the seizure of her daughter's goat, after the girl had a change of heart following a livestock auction. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/153 "2023-04-05T19:30:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > However, the rules don’t have the force of law, breaking the rules is not a criminal act. I think about this as a person who brought a goat figurine to an auction. The auction house said “you signed the agreement to sell, so you have to sell.” The owner does not fight that statement and allows the auction to happen, then has a change of heart and takes the figurine home. This is a very different scenario from a person signing the auction agreement, then saying “screw you, I’m not selling” and taking the figurine home before the auction takes place. After the auction happens, it can be argued that the mom is no longer the owner of the goat. I don’t know if that’s a good argument, there has to be some kind of precedent for animals bought via auction and sent to slaughter, where the ownership of the animal is in question post-auction and pre-slaughter. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/154 "2023-04-05T19:34:31Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > It’s always fun when someone confidently declares something totally wrong. > > Minors CAN enter contracts, with or without their parents, and they DO get the right of take-backsies: “Subject to the power of disaffirmance”, meaning that any such “contract” isn’t legally binding on the child. I made my comments presuming we’re talking about a _legally binding_ contract. I don’t know whether that’s actually the case in this situation, and neither do you. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/155 "2023-04-05T19:40:58Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …everything you need to know about this case has already been linked to in this thread. Again, linking the plaintiff’s complaint means nothing. It represents only what the plaintiff wants the court to find. Additionally, I looked over the rules of the fair. None of what you’ve linked addresses the topic of transfer of ownership, or the contract, or the contracting party, other than a statement “ALL SALES ARE TERMINAL.” Without seeing the agreements signed by the parent (and/or child) we don’t know what rights were established by the agreement, or were subsequently violated by breaching it. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/156 "2023-04-05T19:45:40Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > It looks like the mother took the goat after the sale > > from the article in OP > > > My daughter sobbed in her pen with her goat,” Long wrote to the Shasta County fair’s manager on June 27. “The barn was mostly empty and at the last minute I decided to break the rules and take the goat that night and deal with the consequences later.” OK; I guess that makes some sense; and could even be consistent with their having been asked to be released before the sale, if, upon being rejected, they did then try to go through with it but changed their minds afterwards. However, it would have been so much simpler to just not show up at the sale ring! doesn’t seem that the fair could have done anything about that other than fine them. > [@DesertDog](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > It also states that all animals sold in the auction must go directly to processing from the livestock barns, and exhibitors aren’t allowed in the barns while they’re being loaded. > > Which would seem to imply they’ve run into this as before. Yeah. I suppose it might be just to speed things up; but that regulation reads to me very much as if they’re trying to prevent last-minute backout attempts. In which case, I’m puzzled that nobody kept an eye on a child who’d already tried to back out, to make sure that she didn’t pull exactly a last minute backout attempt. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/157 "2023-04-05T19:57:20Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I think about this as a person who brought a goat figurine to an auction. The auction house said “you signed the agreement to sell, so you have to sell.” The owner does not fight that statement and allows the auction to happen, then has a change of heart and takes the figurine home. I think about it as someone who bought a goat figurine, and those they bought it from insist that it has to be brought to auction to be sold. They object to having to bring it, they object to having to auction it, but they are told they _have_ to. They try to use words to get out of this, but words aren’t working, so rather than accept the proceeds of the auction, they take their figurine back and offer to pay for any costs or losses this may have caused those doing the auction. The change of heart happened before the auction, it’s just that they thought that there was a reasonable way to deal with the situation within the rules. It’s only when they found there was no reasonable way to deal with the situation that they broke the rules. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This is a very different scenario from a person signing the auction agreement, then saying “screw you, I’m not selling” and taking the figurine home before the auction takes place. I’ll agree that that is what they should have done, but they were _trying_ to follow the rules, and expecting actual humans in charge to be reasonable about an exception. From what I understand, they didn’t have to bring the goat to the auction, but they were _told_ that they had to. If those doing the auction misled those with the goat about their obligations, then that is entirely on those doing the auction for lying. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > After the auction happens, it can be argued that the mom is no longer the owner of the goat. I don’t know if that’s a good argument, there has to be some kind of precedent for animals bought via auction and sent to slaughter, where the ownership of the animal is in question post-auction and pre-slaughter. And it’s quite likely that had they simply taken the goat without offering to recompense the auctioneers for it, then the auctioneers would have had a civil case that would have required that they recompense them, but it’s extremely unlikely that they would have had been required to give the specific performance of returning the goat. That they offered to recompense the auctioneers, and in fact made an agreement with the buyer should have put the whole matter to rest. Turning it into a criminal matter and having police executing search warrants is completely ridiculous. They broke no laws, at most, this was a contract violation. ---
**Author:** ![txtumbleweed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@txtumbleweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txtumbleweed)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/158 "2023-04-05T20:29:07Z")
I think I found the 4-H Fair Contract used at Shasta: > **[374677.pdf](https://ucanr.edu/sites/UCCE_Shasta_County/files/374677.pdf)** > > 118.49 KB All it really states is that the animal is the exhibitor’s, that the exhibitor agrees to abide by the fair rules, and agreeing that this is a terminal sale. Signature blocks for 4-H members and a block for the parent. While there may have been better ways for the fair to handle things, ultimately, the mother is at fault for apparently not knowing what she was getting her child into. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/159 "2023-04-05T21:07:17Z")
> [@txtumbleweed](#): > > the mother is at fault for apparently not knowing what she was getting her child into. I think everyone agrees that the mother made a mistake by letting her child participate, but that isn’t the sum total of the mistakes made in this case. As @k9bfriender pointed out, the mother tried to play by the rules and ask for permission to withdraw and she was misled into participating. If she had acted completely selfishly and not shown at the fair she would have been in a stronger legal position. As a hopeless rule-follower I have empathy for her situation. A lot of similar news stories are about some idiot barging through life like a bull in a china shop only to get offended when someone pushes back. This story doesn’t sound like that. It sounds like someone who made a mistake, tried to fix it honestly and fairly, and got nothing but grief the entire time. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992/160 "2023-04-05T21:15:26Z")
> [@txtumbleweed](#): > > ultimately, the mother is at fault for apparently not knowing what she was getting her child into. Good point. People should be wary of 4H and avoid getting their children involved with them. I think that’s the lesson that everyone should take from this story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-didnt-want-her-goat-slaughtered-officials-sent-deputies-after-it/981992.md?page=9)