# Girl-girl exception to monogamy? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 14, 2013, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296 "2013-12-14T06:15:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/61 "2013-12-15T20:08:23Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Sure there is. Without any other context or conversation, “monogamy” means one sexual partner at a time. By definition it would exclude any sexual partners, male or female, outside the relationship. > > Now, if you want a looser definition that allows same-sex action or any other agreement, of course that’s fine, as long as all people in the relationship are aware of boundaries. But the default assumption is no sexual partners outside your own if your promise is to monogamy. I don’t disagree with you exactly, I just think it ends up being a semantic argument. While technically the OP did specifically use the word monogamy, I suspect a lot of couples will just say things like “are we together now” or “will you be my girlfriend” without necessarily using the M word. And they may often be surprised, if they don’t discuss it in advance of when it becomes an issue, exactly what their assumptions are about that. I mean, a lot of people have issues with their partner looking at porn or staying friends with an ex and consider that cheating, but those sorts of things probably don’t fall under the strict dictionary sense. And there was a long historical period where girl-girl action was considered by professionals not to even count as sexual activity. So, it boils down, for me, to semantics. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/62 "2013-12-15T23:16:47Z")
There is really only one meaningful definition of cheating: it’s violating whatever agreements the two of you have. Ideally these agreements are explicit, but often they’re implicit. The latter can lead to disagreements about what the agreements are, though, which is why explicit ones are best. So the only really meaningful question here is “would YOU consider it cheating?” Who the hell cares what other couples think? Other than that yeah, it’s interesting. My wife and I have pretty strict rules; that’s the way she likes it and I’m happy to comply. If I were with someone with different rules, I’d be willing to try and see if different rules work out for us. I’m not a very possessive guy, but then I haven’t been in a situation to test that assertion much. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/63 "2013-12-15T23:31:16Z")
But I thought the question was not of “cheating,” but rather “monogamy.” I kind of think those are two different things. You could have multiple sexual partners and not be cheating, but I wouldn’t call that a strictly monogamous relationship, at least not as the word is customarily used. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/64 "2013-12-15T23:40:35Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > But I thought the question was not of “cheating,” but rather “monogamy.” I kind of think those are two different things. You could have multiple sexual partners and not be cheating, but I wouldn’t call that a strictly monogamous relationship, at least not as the word is customarily used. By Jove, you are right. Look at the OP set-up… > [@LinusK](#): > > So I was talking to my wife and she said **there’s a girl-girl exception to monogamy** : if a the female half of a (heterosexual) couple is with another girl, **it isn’t really cheating**. (emphasis mine) … which is repeated in the wording of the poll question and of poll option #2. It mixes a question about “monogamy” (a conduct/behavior) with “cheating” (a \*moral judgement about \*it). ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/65 "2013-12-15T23:46:07Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’d say that’s up to the lesbians in question. What they regard as infidelity is what matters, not what I think of it. Well, then, what’s the point of this entire thread? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/66 "2013-12-15T23:50:21Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Well, then, what’s the point of this entire thread? It’s succeeded in verifying, at least for the slice of the population represented by Dopers, that many straight men would indeed experience less anguish over their wife’s infidelity with a woman than with a man. And we’ve even discussed some of the reasons why that might be so. Sounds like a reasonable outcome for an IMHO thread. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/67 "2013-12-15T23:57:15Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > By Jove, you are right. Look at the OP set-up… > (emphasis mine) … which is repeated in the wording of the poll question and of poll option #2. > > It mixes a question about “monogamy” (a conduct/behavior) with “cheating” (a \*moral judgement about \*it). Well, then my original point stands. Without further discussion, I couldn’t see how anybody would assume a “monogamous” relationship allows for woman-on-woman action without running that by your partner first. So, yes, if I agreed to a monogamous relationship and my girlfriend told me she had a sexual tryst with another woman while we were dating, that would absolutely be considered cheating, unless we’ve discussed it beforehand. I find it rather difficult to wrap my head around the idea that it would be otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/68 "2013-12-16T00:11:01Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Well, then my original point stands. Without further discussion, I couldn’t see how anybody would assume a “monogamous” relationship allows for woman-on-woman action without running that by your partner first. So, yes, if I agreed to a monogamous relationship and my girlfriend told me she had a sexual tryst with another woman while we were dating, that would absolutely be considered cheating, unless we’ve discussed it beforehand. I find it rather difficult to wrap my head around the idea that it would be otherwise. But there can be a difference between being upset about something on a philosophical level, and actually feeling overwhelming jealousy about it. I know many of the lofty people here are above lowbrow feelings like jealousy, but I believe it would be a major factor for most people. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/69 "2013-12-16T00:35:59Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > But there can be a difference between being upset about something on a philosophical level, and actually feeling overwhelming jealousy about it. I know many of the lofty people here are above lowbrow feelings like jealousy, but I believe it would be a major factor for most people. I’m not entirely sure what this means. I’d feel both upset and jealous about it. It makes no difference the object of her sexual affection. When we promised an exclusive/monogamous relationship with each other, there were no “exceptions” discussed and none should be assumed. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/70 "2013-12-16T00:41:27Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not entirely sure what this means. I’d feel both upset and jealous about it. It makes no difference the object of her sexual affection. When we promised an exclusive/monogamous relationship with each other, there were no “exceptions” discussed and none should be assumed. I don’t doubt that some men would feel just as jealous if their SO was with another woman. But I don’t think that most would. I think a lot of the “it’s exactly the same” talk is just theoretical. Not based on actual feelings, but just how it “should” be. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/71 "2013-12-16T01:04:26Z")
Some of the “it’s the same talk” is coming from women, not men, which might also be a factor to consider. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/72 "2013-12-16T01:04:53Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > I don’t doubt that some men would feel just as jealous if their SO was with another woman. But I don’t think that most would. I think a lot of the “it’s exactly the same” talk is just theoretical. Not based on actual feelings, but just how it “should” be. It’s possible they would feel different, sure. But this isn’t a question of degree of jealousy. I’m sure some would feel it’s not as bad as being with another guy. But I’m pretty sure almost every single one of my male friends in a relationship they term “monogamous” would consider it “cheating” barring a discussion that explicitly permits it. I mean, with that logic, hey, I can go get a handie at the massage parlor and it’s not “cheating.” I mean, it means nothing, right? Just business. It’s an “exception.” Please. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/73 "2013-12-16T01:21:51Z")
I’m not saying it’s okay to do! If you’re in a supposedly monogamous relationship you shouldn’t mess with anyone else without discussing it with your partner, no matter the genders of anyone involved. But I think the majority of men would not be bothered in the same way if it was with another woman vs. a man. And no, it’s not comparable to a man getting a handie at a massage parlor. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/74 "2013-12-16T02:37:16Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > . But I think the majority of men would not be bothered in the same way if it was with another woman vs. a man. I don’t necessarily disagree with the degree of slight a man may perceive. I just don’t think a majority of men would consider it “not cheating” as you said in your first post. > [@](#): > > And no, it’s not comparable to a man getting a handie at a massage parlor. I think a handie at a massage parlor is less of a threat, and less to be jealous about, personally. But, yeah, I would expect that my partner would consider that “cheating.” ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/75 "2013-12-16T03:51:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > For a lot of straight men it’s still all about them, their dicks, and the paternity of their offspring. Girl-girl doesn’t count because it’s not involving them, not involving their dicks, and doesn’t affect the paternity of their children and therefore isn’t really sex. I don’t think people object to their SO having sex with others solely due to the possibility of them having kids with others. Off the top of my head, some reasons people object are: [ol] [li]SO having kids with another person [the reason stated in this thread][/li][li]SO getting sexually transmitted diseases from their lovers, giving it to you.[/li][li]SO developing a closer emotional connection with the lover, over time, and leaving you[/li][/ol] There are probably more reasons, but the above shows that it’s not just about the fear of the wife getting pregnant by another man that makes men not like her having sexual relations with other people. (and reasons 2 & 3 above can happen even if the lover is of the same sex as your SO) Also, if it was just about the babies, then if a guy knew 100% that his wife was sterile (e.g. she had a hysterectomy), then according to some people in this thread he would be just fine with her having sex with as many men as she wanted. We know for sure this isn’t the case. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/76 "2013-12-16T03:54:32Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > I don’t doubt that some men would feel just as jealous if their SO was with another woman. But I don’t think that most would. I think the men who voted in this poll (roughly 65 to 8, if the voters are of roughly equal genders) would beg to differ with your assertion. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/77 "2013-12-16T04:47:31Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > I don’t think people object to their SO having sex with others solely due to the possibility of them having kids with others. Yeah, that’s why I said “a lot” instead of “all”. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/78 "2013-12-16T04:52:36Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > I think the men who voted in this poll (roughly 65 to 8, if the voters are of roughly equal genders) would beg to differ with your assertion. Are you sure? There wasn’t a middle ground option for the poll. I for one thought there should have been. A “Yeah, it’s kind of cheating, but not as bad as regular cheating” option. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/79 "2013-12-16T04:54:14Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > But would anyone heterosexual consider it exactly the same if their partner cheated with someone of the same sex? The boyfriend who cheated on me cheated with anything that stayed still long enough. I wasn’t offended by the cheating, since strictly speaking we’d never spelled out “asking someone to marry you spells out m-o-n-o-g-a-m-y”, or by the choice of partners. I was pissed out that he would do it without minimal hygiene and that apparently I was just a not-always-available fuckglove. And that would have been the same whether his five-minute-stands were men, women or trilobites. I’ve never been the jealous type, in this context or any other. To me the problem is not jealousy, it’s responsibility and dependability. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2013, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296/80 "2013-12-16T06:29:39Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > I think the men who voted in this poll (roughly 65 to 8, if the voters are of roughly equal genders) would beg to differ with your assertion. No, they just said there’s no exception for it. Not that they would feel exactly the same way about it. Besides, I think people in general get jealous a lot more than people here do, or admit to. Obviously if someone claims their \*only \*objection to their partner fucking around is the deceitfulness, it wouldn’t really matter who it was with. I just don’t believe that’s actually the case for most people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-girl-exception-to-monogamy/676296.md?page=5)