# Girl Guides Canada cancels US travel **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 14, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165 "2017-03-14T15:05:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/1 "2017-03-14T15:05:32Z")
Girl Guides Canada Cancels All Trips To U.S. Over Trump’s Travel Ban [http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/03/13/girl-guides-of-canada-cancelling-u-s-trips-due-to-uncertain-entry-rules\_n\_15345468.html](http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/03/13/girl-guides-of-canada-cancelling-u-s-trips-due-to-uncertain-entry-rules_n_15345468.html) Worried some of the girls may face issues at the border they have cancelled. They have always had a policy that if any are refused, they all turn back. A lot of schools here are really struggling to make a similar choice. None really want to get political, but these are school kids, and it is a real and present possibility. You cannot imagine how many, across Canada, class trips, track meets, band concerts, school trips, etc, etc, on endlessly, are already lined up. Most already paid for! I really feel for those that have to make these choices, it cannot be easy to disappoint so many! ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/2 "2017-03-14T16:00:48Z")
On the upside, the US administration can claim credit for turning away an incalculable number of possible tiny terrorists. SO, yay? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Soylent\_Juicy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Soylent\_Juicy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Juicy)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/3 "2017-03-14T16:23:17Z")
Wow, things certainly have changed. When I was in Girl Guides 30+ years ago we were lucky to go camping in tents at some shitty campground. I remember using a latrine behind tarps and brushing our teeth in a stream. I’m kind of glad though that groups like this will be more inclined to spend their time & money in Canada. There is so much to see and learn about here. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/4 "2017-03-14T18:22:02Z")
They can make whatever decision they want, being a private group and all, but this decision is absolutely political. Canada is not on the list of countries affected. Canadian citizens do not need a visa to come to the US, only a Canadian passport ([and not even that if under 16](https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1280/~/children---traveling-into-the-u.s.-as-canadian-citizen)). Girl Guides who are not Canadian citizens and who already have a visa (if necessary) are not affected by the EO. Non-Canadian citizens who can get a visa prior to travel are not affected. Those who cannot - a tiny number I would guess, if any at all - are easy to identify in advance of a trip as they won’t be able to get a visa. Not everyone likes the EO. I get that. Some are vehemently against it. I get that, too. Just say it, though. Don’t couch it as “our girls may be unexpectedly turned back at the border” because that is just not reality. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/5 "2017-03-14T18:30:39Z")
It most certainly is a reality. There have been numerous stories in the news of Canadian citizens being turned back at the border for, you know, being brown. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/6 "2017-03-14T18:47:16Z")
This is so embarrassing. I’m not a violent person at all, but I wish someone would shoot that orange fucker. Maybe one of those mentally ill people he gave gun rights. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/7 "2017-03-14T18:51:21Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > They can make whatever decision they want, being a private group and all, but this decision is absolutely political. Canada is not on the list of countries affected. Canadian citizens do not need a visa to come to the US, only a Canadian passport ([and not even that if under 16](https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1280/~/children---traveling-into-the-u.s.-as-canadian-citizen)). Girl Guides who are not Canadian citizens and who already have a visa (if necessary) are not affected by the EO. Non-Canadian citizens who can get a visa prior to travel are not affected. Those who cannot - a tiny number I would guess, if any at all - are easy to identify in advance of a trip as they won’t be able to get a visa. > > Not everyone likes the EO. I get that. Some are vehemently against it. I get that, too. Just say it, though. Don’t couch it as “our girls may be unexpectedly turned back at the border” because that is just not reality. There have been several stories of Canadian citizens being denied access, and in some cases, grilled at the border about their religion if they happened to be traveling while brown. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/8 "2017-03-14T19:16:29Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > This is so embarrassing. I’m not a violent person at all, but I wish someone would shoot that orange fucker. Maybe one of those mentally ill people he gave gun rights. Please don’t wish for the assassination of the U.S. President. The damage that would be done by that kind of assault on our political system, not to mention the boost it would give to his supporters, are really not worth it. Far better to wish that he can be persuaded to change his ideas and work for the greater good. As another non-violent person, that’s where I focus my wishes. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/9 "2017-03-14T19:27:23Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > They can make whatever decision they want, being a private group and all, but this decision is absolutely political. Canada is not on the list of countries affected. Canadian citizens do not need a visa to come to the US, only a Canadian passport ([and not even that if under 16](https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1280/~/children---traveling-into-the-u.s.-as-canadian-citizen)). Girl Guides who are not Canadian citizens and who already have a visa (if necessary) are not affected by the EO. Non-Canadian citizens who can get a visa prior to travel are not affected. Those who cannot - a tiny number I would guess, if any at all - are easy to identify in advance of a trip as they won’t be able to get a visa. > > Not everyone likes the EO. I get that. Some are vehemently against it. I get that, too. Just say it, though. Don’t couch it as “our girls may be unexpectedly turned back at the border” because that is just not reality. Canadian citizens are regularly turned back at the border. Recently, they have been quizzed about their political leanings, and brown ones have been told that they now need a visa. When you are turned back at the border there is no recourse, no appeal, no nothing. It is the decision of a single border agent who can refuse you for any or no reason. And what appears to be happening recently is that these agents are turning Canadians back because they look a bit too Mexican-like. IT IS REALITY. In addition, it may surprise you to know that some Canadians hold dual nationality. Some have immigrated from places like Syria or Iran. Are we going to tell a girl guide group or a school group “OK, all of you can go on the cool trip, except for you little shits from Iran. You are too disgusting to go on the trip” To be brief, HELL NO. There is a worry that this is happening now, and nothing is being done. And that it will only get worse. In the light of what is actually happening now, I can understand if groups are cancelling their plans. It is simply too risky to travel to the US with a group of children. What if an escort/chaperone is turned back? What then? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/10 "2017-03-14T19:32:52Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > There have been several stories of Canadian citizens being denied access, and in some cases, grilled at the border about their religion if they happened to be traveling while brown. > [@Leaffan](#): > > It most certainly is a reality. There have been numerous stories in the news of Canadian citizens being turned back at the border for, you know, being brown. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Canadian citizens are regularly turned back at the border. Recently, they have been quizzed about their political leanings, and brown ones have been told that they now need a visa the only story I’ve seen was the older Canadian couple who were send for biometric review at a US airport. if there are stories about racial/religious profiling of Canadian citizens I have not seen those - mea culpa. I would like some links, if possible. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/11 "2017-03-14T19:36:44Z")
Examples of Canadians being turned away at the border: > **[Canadian volunteers denied entry to U.S. so they wouldn't 'steal American...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/hamilton-church-volunteers-denied-entry-to-u-s-so-they-wouldn-t-steal-american-jobs-1.4022969)** > > The group, heading for New Jersey, says it was turned away for fear members would steal American construction jobs, and that there was "no pressing need" for Hurricane Sandy relief work. > **[Rejection rate on the rise for Canadians at U.S. border](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/rejection-rate-on-the-rise-for-canadians-at-us-border/article34262237/)** > > An increasing number of people are being turned away at the border, with many complaining rejection seemed inexplicable > **[Turned away at the border - Canada News](https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/190773/Turned-away-at-the-border)** > > A Montreal woman who is a Canadian citizen says she was barred from entering the United States and told to get a visa. > **[Calgary man warning others after ‘humiliating’ experience at U.S. border...](https://globalnews.ca/news/3291746/calgary-man-warning-others-after-humiliating-experience-at-u-s-border-crossing/)** > > A Calgary man said he’s been to the United States a half dozen times in the past 40 years by air and car with no problems--until Saturday. > **['We love our Canadian neighbours': Vermont businesses watch anxiously as...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/canada-us-border-vermont-passport-businesses-1.4017676)** > > Businesses in Vermont are concerned media reports about Canadian passport holders turned away at the border could lead others to avoid visiting their state. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/12 "2017-03-14T20:11:26Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > They can make whatever decision they want, being a private group and all, but this decision is absolutely political. And aside from the fact that some Canadians citizens who are recent immigrants, or the children of immigrants, have _already_ had problems with entry into the US, what exactly is wrong with the Girl Guides, or anyone else, making a “political” decision? Aside from the immigration issues, the new US administration has been making noises about screwing around with NAFTA and other trade agreements. What exactly is wrong with Canadians deciding to vote with our dollars, in order to show them how much of an impact Canadian trade and tourism has on their economy? Since they’re apparently either too stubborn or too stupid to look at the trade statistics, directly hitting them in the pocketbook may very well be the only way we have of getting our point across. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/13 "2017-03-14T20:14:50Z")
OK, I found some myself as well (not much in the US press, though). [This CBC article](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/canadian-woman-turned-away-border-1.4013478)says: > [@](#): > > “We’ve heard numerous stories across the country, long before this administration, of customs and border patrol agents acting in arbitrary and capricious ways and assuming unto themselves an authority and a power that they don’t have,” she said. > > “It appears possible that that’s been turned on to hyper drive, based on what the rhetoric coming out of the administration has been.” So it’s been an issue for a long time and **may** be escalating. From **Rick** ’s [Globe and Mail Link](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/rejection-rate-on-the-rise-for-canadians-at-us-border/article34262237/): > [@](#): > > U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents turned away 27,772 people trying to enter the United States from the northern border in **2016** , an increase of 6.7 per cent from the year before despite a decrease in the overall volume of travellers. Cross-border trips by Canadians fell 9 per cent. (bolding mine) and > [@](#): > > The overall rate of rejection at the border remains tiny, however, and could comfort the millions of Canadians who cross every year. Travellers from Canada turned away at the border represented less than .085 per cent of the 33 million cross-border trips in 2016 – a rate that remained constant to the end of the year through Donald Trump’s win in the U.S. election. Again, the increases in border rejections took place before Trump’s EO. The reporting, on the other hand, is escalating. At this point I’m still not convinced this isn’t political - or if not political then misattribution. Again, Girl Guides and other organizations have to make their own decisions, but the facts don’t (yet) bear out the concerns. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/14 "2017-03-14T20:26:11Z")
They refused a born in Britain, brown teacher, WITH a school group, who HAD a visa! Leaving the school group, in NY, shy an adult chaperone. What if it’s your kid that gets refused? And the whole group could be delayed by hours, only to see their classmate rejected and the teacher left to sort it out. Many schools have put off decisions desperately trying to avoid the politics. But there are logistics at play that need to be addressed. Which will be harder for students to understand, deciding on another destination ahead of time, or a nightmare at the border and then crushingly return home? I know which I’d prefer for my kids. There are other places for them to go. Why would they take the risk? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/15 "2017-03-14T21:25:50Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Girl Guides who are not Canadian citizens and who already have a visa (if necessary) are not affected by the EO. Non-Canadian citizens who can get a visa prior to travel are not affected. Those who cannot - a tiny number I would guess, if any at all - are easy to identify in advance of a trip as they won’t be able to get a visa. Yes, but some girls who are legal residents of Canada, but not citizens, were born in Iran, Syria, the Sudan, etc. These girls might have been able to get a visa before, based on their legal residency and lack of ties to their country of citizenship, but now they cannot. More to the point, the Girl Guides’ philosophy is that if some of the girls cannot go, then none of them are going to go. It’s called solidarity, and it’s awesome. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/16 "2017-03-14T21:41:28Z")
Also, I think this announcement, by the Girl Guides, is likely to represent a tipping point for a lot of schools and other organizations who have desperately put off making a decision on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/17 "2017-03-14T22:32:31Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > This is so embarrassing. I’m not a violent person at all, but I wish someone would shoot that orange fucker. Maybe one of those mentally ill people he gave gun rights. This is terribly poor judgement, on a public message board. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/18 "2017-03-14T23:25:15Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > This is so embarrassing. I’m not a violent person at all, but I wish someone would shoot that orange fucker. Maybe one of those mentally ill people he gave gun rights. And make Mike Pence President? The VP is the greatest insurance policy against anything happening to the President. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/19 "2017-03-14T23:27:24Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Examples of Canadians being turned away at the border: > [Hamilton church volunteers denied entry to U.S. so they wouldn't 'steal American jobs' | CBC News](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/hamilton-church-volunteers-denied-entry-to-u-s-so-they-wouldn-t-steal-american-jobs-1.4022969) (post shortened) Your first linked article says a white church group was turned away because they did not have all of their required paperwork. The headline says it was about stealing American jobs. Offering to repair five year old damage caused by Hurricane Sandy certainly sounds rewarding, except for the “five years ago” part. IIRC, unions in New Jersey objected to non-union workers coming from other U.S. states to repair damage in NJ right after Hurricane Sandy disaster. I can’t imagine why those same unions wouldn’t object to foreign workers being paid while American workers are unemployed. This sounds like a case of union-protectionism. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165/20 "2017-03-14T23:37:56Z")
Has anyone quantified how much money the US has lost due to this travel ban? That would be interesting… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-guides-canada-cancels-us-travel/782165.md?page=2)