# Girl names that used to be boy names **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 2, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371 "2009-10-02T17:35:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/81 "2009-10-04T14:09:35Z")
The irritating and pretentious trend I see more than anything is using white-people last names for female first names… if they sound ritzy or east-coast establishment, so much the better. I’d be irritated by little boys named Reagan or Carter, but on girls it’s just appalling. For obvious reasons, I don’t think we’re going to get any girls named Clinton or Bushe. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/82 "2009-10-04T18:07:50Z")
Bambi. After the original, I don’t believe any boy’s been given the name. I could be wrong but I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/83 "2009-10-04T22:31:50Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > The irritating and pretentious trend I see more than anything is using white-people last names for female first names… if they sound ritzy or east-coast establishment, so much the better. I’d be irritated by little boys named Reagan or Carter, but on girls it’s just appalling. For obvious reasons, I don’t think we’re going to get any girls named Clinton or Bushe. “Regan” has been a girl’s name for a long time – one of the daughters in _King Lear_ is named Regan. The [Baby Name Wizard](http://www.babynamewizard.com/voyager) indicates that “Re[a]gan” started shooting up in popularity around the time Ronald Reagan became president, although it looks like “Regan” had already been increasing in popularity in the 1960s but then dropped off suddenly sometime in the 1970s. I’d guess that _The Exorcist_ (1973) made it seem like not such a great name for a little girl for a while. The Baby Name Wizard doesn’t give “Carter” as a girl’s name within the top 1,000 in any decade, although it’s become a very popular name for boys in recent years. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/84 "2009-10-04T22:37:11Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > Riley may be one that is M and F. > > I know a Courtney that is a male. Courtney started as a man’s name, though, didn’t it? I’m still trying to find a single name that started off as traditionally female then became exclusively or almost exclusively male. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/85 "2009-10-05T00:23:33Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > In America, **Robin** seems to generally be used as a female name, but in England (when I was a boy anyway) it was as masculine as Peter or George, and I rather think it is still used as a boy’s name there even now. Despite the tights, there was nothing girly about Robin Hood. I would not be at all surprised, however, to learn that girls are also being named Robin in England these days (people will have learned it from American TV and movies). > > Perhaps, though, the belief that Robin is a girl’s name has something to do with the strange way Americans often pronounce “Robin Hood”. They say it with a strong emphasis on the first syllable **Rob** in Hood. Americans do not do this with other names. Normally, in both American and British English, either first and last names are are stressed equally, or else there is a somewhat greater stress on the surname. In Britain “Robin Hood” is no exception: it is said like a normal name (which it is). I am just guessing here, but maybe the strange American stress pattern arises somehow from a discomfort with such an obviously masculine character having what, to Americans, seems to be a thoroughly feminine name. (I would be interested to hear other theories about this odd phenomenon, however.) I love… _love_ the name Robin for a boy. I have a friend with an adult son named Robin. My husband thinks it’s a girl’s name and refuses to consider it. He thinks the same thing about Schuyler (Americanized and ultimately feminized as Skylar). Interesting observation about the _Rob_in Hood pronunciation thing. I think when I was a kid, I always heard it pronounced almost as one word: _Rob_’nhood or _Rob_in-hood. I guess we assumed that “Hood” was something of a title or jaunty nickname, rather than a surname. If I’d known then that it was, I probably would have thought the first-syllable stress odd. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > On Celtic names in English: whenever I have a student called Caitlin, I always call role with the Irish pronunciation (which sounds, not coincidentally, very much like Kathleen). They always insist that “it’s pronounced Kate-Lynn.” Yeah, you child of ethnocentric cultural imperialists, sure. I gotta call shenanigans on this one. I had frequently seen this said on the Dope, and loved the description of the “real Celtic pronunciation”. We recently had a visiting scientist from Ireland working in NajaHusband’s lab. Hell of a nice guy, and we had dinner with him frequently when he was here. One night I asked him about this supposed difference in pronunciation, and he looked at me like I was loony. After a moment of awkward silence, I asked him how he pronounces the name and he says “kate-lynn”. You could maybe hear the “i” sound a bit better, but otherwise, exactly the same. He said he had never once heard it pronounced anything like “kathleen” or “cot-leen” or “caht-leen” as has frequently been asserted here. > [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > The irritating and pretentious trend I see more than anything is using white-people last names for female first names… if they sound ritzy or east-coast establishment, so much the better. I’d be irritated by little boys named Reagan or Carter, but on girls it’s just appalling. For obvious reasons, I don’t think we’re going to get any girls named Clinton or Bushe. Nothing new. Carson, Parker, Blair, Corey, Whitney, Porter, Jackson, Lincoln, Grant, Harrison, Lacey, Alden, Courtney, Clark, Bradley, Franklin… pulling from family surnames or from the ranks of admired people has been happening for centuries. My favorite discoveries in terms of names that have apparently jumped the gender ship (or at least made cross-gender forays) all come from the earliest available SSN [collections](http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/): Sandy, Pearl, Alma, Beverly, Clair, Emma, June, Lacy, Minnie, Addie, Clara, Florence, Ida, Jennie, Lindsey, Dora, Ethel, Hallie, Nellie, Augusta, Edith, Edie, Flora, Holly, Jewel, Katherine and Rose all show up in the ranks of most-popular boys’ names in the 1800’s. On the flip side, Ollie, Joseph, Earl, and James are on the girls’ names list ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/86 "2009-10-05T00:30:08Z")
Oops, and missed the window for an ETA: I also used to love Tristan for a boy; I first came across it as a kid in the James Herriot books. Sad that it’s becoming a preppy sorority-girl name on par with Kendall. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/87 "2009-10-05T00:48:19Z")
Oh, and not to spam the thread, but Pink is on the list of boys’ names, too 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/88 "2009-10-05T01:18:16Z")
> [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](#): > > I will never be able to stomach McKenzie as a girl’s name, no matter what kind of tortured girlie spelling (Makenzie, Makynzi, Mykenzie, etc.) is applied. It will always be a crotchety old fart name. Was wondering when this one would come up. 🙂 Another good example of surname turned first name – my Dad has it as a middle name (for a maternal Grandmother’s surname), and if our lad had been a lad-ess she would have got it as a first name. (I didn’t realise it was a popular girl’s name at that time… we didn’t end up using it it any case). Instead the lad got named Alexander (after my Grandfather)… and shortened against my wife’s initial efforts of “Alec” to “Alex” (by pretty much everyone). Since then I think the only "Alex"s we’ve met have been girls (although their full names are usually Alexandra). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/89 "2009-10-05T01:34:39Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > …I gotta call shenanigans on this one… Did your visiting scientist from Ireland speak Irish? I don’t know how the English-speaking Irish pronounce the name, but the language that came up with the Caitlin (properly, Caitlín) spelling is not English, it’s Irish Gaelic. _Caitlín_ is unaspirated k + a + unaspirated palatalized t + palatalized l + long i (English ee) + palatalized n, with the stress on the first syllable in most dialects. I’m willing to believe that the English-speaking Irish say “Kate-Lynn,” but not in Irish. Reference: [http://www.omniglot.com/writing/irish.htm](http://www.omniglot.com/writing/irish.htm) Anyway, if someone decides their kid is called Kate-Lynn, spelled Caitlín or Kaaytt-linn or Zippleblop 5, it’s not really my job to correct them. The English name _Caitlin_ IS pronounced Kate-Lynn. My argument is historical, but it’s not meant to be prescriptive. (It would be highly hypocritical given the way my own names are pronounced.) ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/90 "2009-10-05T02:01:58Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I don’t know how the English-speaking Irish pronounce the name, but the language that came up with the Caitlin (properly, Caitlín) spelling is not English, it’s Irish Gaelic. Yes, I understand that from a historical POV. My point is that if someone who has lived their entire forty-odd years in Ireland has never in their life heard it pronounced the “real” way, then I have a hard time feeling all shirty about Americans pronouncing it the “corrupted” way, too. 😉 For example, I’ll still pronounce the names “Manuel” and “Jesus” or “Giovanni” with something close to a proper accent, even if the owner of said name is thoroughly English-speaking. It would be weird to say “Man-well” or “Jee-zus” or “Gee-oh-van-ee”. If, on the other hand, the overwhelming majority of the home country used these anglo-fied pronunciations, it would be awkward to appropriate a pronunciation that’s esoteric even back home. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/91 "2009-10-05T02:03:03Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > Nothing new. Carson, Parker, Blair, Corey, Whitney, Porter, Jackson, Lincoln, Grant, Harrison, Lacey, Alden, Courtney, Clark, Bradley, Franklin… pulling from family surnames or from the ranks of admired people has been happening for centuries. Not so much for girls, though, and there seems to be a big fad of it sweeping through right now. There were Ava’s in the 1800’s too, but its huge comeback in the past 3 years is notable. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/92 "2009-10-05T02:08:30Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > For example, I’ll still pronounce the names “Manuel” and “Jesus” or “Giovanni” with something close to a proper accent, even if the owner of said name is thoroughly English-speaking. It would be weird to say “Man-well” or “Jee-zus” or “Gee-oh-van-ee”. If, on the other hand, the overwhelming majority of the home country used these anglo-fied pronunciations, it would be awkward to appropriate a pronunciation that’s esoteric even back home. Agreed. And even then, it varies. I used to know a Manuel who pronounced his name like the English word “manual.” He barely spoke English, but lived in a predominantly Anglo town. My smug know-it-all 16-year-old self tried to call him “Manuel,” and he corrected me: “That’s my father. I prefer Manual.” Up to him. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/93 "2009-10-05T14:20:40Z")
Remember when Gail or Gale could be male? One from each sport, from the 1960’s–footballer Gale Sayers, basketballer Gail Goodrich, and baseballer Gail Hopkins. I don’t see too many Gails of either sex these days, although Abigail seems to be making a comeback. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/94 "2009-10-06T01:08:35Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > The irritating and pretentious trend I see more than anything is using white-people last names for female first names… if they sound ritzy or east-coast establishment, so much the better. I’d be irritated by little boys named Reagan or Carter, but on girls it’s just appalling. For obvious reasons, I don’t think we’re going to get any girls named Clinton or Bushe. My brother’s name is Carter, long before the man from Georgia even thought of becoming President. And no, we’re not from GA. It’s a traditional boys’ name. Regan is from Shakespeare (well, probably before that); never met a girl named Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/95 "2009-10-06T01:32:30Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > I would imagine no woman (or very few) are name[d] Christopher. There’s an actress named [Christopher Norris](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Norris_(actress)). ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/96 "2009-10-06T13:18:13Z")
Someone mentioned my name, but misspelled it. 😉 I’m a Lindsay. I know of a couple LindsEys but most I’ve seen are LindsAy. The famous girl Lindsays spell it my way (Lindsay Wagner, Lindsay Lohan), so why does _everyone_ assume it’s spelled with an E? Then I look like a bitch for correcting them. Dangit, it’s not like I have a non-standard spelling (Lynzi or whatever). Though I like that before I signed up for a card with them, Amex always sent card offers to Mr. Lindsay (lastname). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/97 "2009-10-06T15:17:41Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > Yes, I understand that from a historical POV. My point is that if someone who has lived their entire forty-odd years in Ireland has never in their life heard it pronounced the “real” way, then I have a hard time feeling all shirty about Americans pronouncing it the “corrupted” way, too. 😉 There are two Irelands when it comes to language. Most people in Ireland speak English and only learn Irish in school, but there is a minority who speak Irish as their first language. These people mostly live in the areas called Gaeltachts. If you live in or near one of those areas, you’re going to be exposed to more of the original names and pronunciations. My wife grew up near a Gaeltacht and we visit once or twice a year. I have heard people pronounce Caitlin the way that was noted above. If someone who has lived in Ireland for decades hasn’t heard it, it’s only because he hasn’t spent much time with people who speak Irish regularly. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/98 "2009-10-06T15:33:06Z")
Sure, and I’m not disputing any of that. My point is that if the majority of people _in the home country_ are unfamiliar with the “real” pronunciation… do you understand my point that getting snippy as folks on this board from time-to-time do about the rest of the English-speaking world using the same pronunciation that the home country uses in standard practice is a smidgen absurd? ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/99 "2009-10-06T15:40:59Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > Sure, and I’m not disputing any of that. My point is that if the majority of people _in the home country_ are unfamiliar with the “real” pronunciation… do you understand my point that getting snippy as folks on this board from time-to-time do about the rest of the English-speaking world using the same pronunciation that the home country uses in standard practice is a smidgen absurd? I didn’t see anyone getting snippy. I do wonder how you know that the majority of people in Ireland are unfamiliar with the “real” pronunciation based on a conversation you had with one person. ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/100 "2009-10-06T16:50:35Z")
> [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > I didn’t see anyone getting snippy. I do wonder how you know that the majority of people in Ireland are unfamiliar with the “real” pronunciation based on a conversation you had with one person. Sigh. Well, as I said in my first response on the topic, this allegation has been made on this board for years. The person who brought it up here says that as a teacher, he purposely mispronounces the name, knowing he’ll be corrected. That seems at the very least mildly pretentious to me. In any case, leaving his actions aside, the comments I made both to him and to you were regarding the history of this topic coming up on the board. He may or may not have been “snippy” right here and now, but that’s not exclusively what I was commenting on. To answer your second comment, both people who have commented on this topic _in this thread_ have said that “English-speaking Irish” are the majority, that speaking Irish is rare, and that this pronunciation is only heard in isolated areas where speaking Irish is common. You are certainly correct that I have not polled all of Ireland to find out how everyone there pronounces the name “Caitlin” or if they have ever experienced the esoteric, classical pronunciation. I guess I’m just willing to take the word of a native Irishman who says he had never heard such a thing (which is at least evidence that it’s not common knowledge), and to accept the corroborating evidence that you yourself provided that the usage is esoteric and geographically limited. So I’ll ask you again: do you understand my point that getting snippy as folks on this board from time-to-time do about the rest of the English-speaking world using the same pronunciation that the home country uses in standard practice is a smidgen absurd? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371.md?page=6)