# Girl names that used to be boy names **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 2, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371 "2009-10-02T17:35:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/101 "2009-10-06T16:57:28Z")
In other words: it seems to me a little like coming in and arguing that all those stupid yuppie Americans who name their kid “Christopher” are culture-raping peasants because they don’t use the pronunciation “Χριστόφορος”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/102 "2009-10-06T17:10:27Z")
> [@NajaNivea](#): > > The person who brought it up here says that as a teacher, he purposely mispronounces the name, knowing he’ll be corrected. That seems at the very least mildly pretentious to me. Since I started this hijack, I’ll chime in: it is a bit pretentious, and I should clarify that I only do it once, to make a point about the Irish language (about which many people are ignorant), and thereafter always use the individual’s preferred pronunciation of his or her own name. I don’t mind when names are borrowed through oral tradition and change organically. (Caitlín is, after all, a borrowed name in the first place, not a native Irish one.) What I dislike is when people read someone else’s language and borrow the spelling only. I think it’s a different phenomenon. The former is sharing, the latter is taking. To give other examples, it would be like pronounced “Theresa” with the -th- as in “thing” or “Christopher” with the -ch- as in “church.” If someone does that deliberately, it’s one thing; I don’t have to approve of everything in the world. What I hate is when it’s done out of ignorance, which seems to be the case most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Jelymag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jelymag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jelymag)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/103 "2009-10-06T21:02:18Z")
> [@Cazzle](#): > > Rory entered the [US Top 100](http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/) for boys in 1947 at 808 and has featured every year since, climbing to the 280th spot in 1959. Conversely, Rory as a girl’s name entered the top 100 in 2003 at 988 and did not feature again until 2008, when it was the 982nd most popular girl’s name for the year. Huh, guess I just happened to meet the few girl Rorys (Rories??) first. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/104 "2009-10-07T17:50:14Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > The Baby Name Wizard doesn’t give “Carter” as a girl’s name within the top 1,000 in any decade, although it’s become a very popular name for boys in recent years. Probably because of the rising popularity of [this band](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_the_Unstoppable_Sex_Machine). 😉 (I saw a concert poster for them once with Jimmy Carter’s face on it… Hilarious.) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/105 "2009-10-07T19:01:35Z")
Two of my nephews have three last names. Their given names are Tyler and Carter, their middle names are the same as their mom’s last name, and their last name is–of course–the same as their dad’s last name. ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/106 "2009-10-08T13:51:11Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > The yuppie douchebags are trying to feminize “Emerson” now, and I won’t have it! Do you hear me?! I still can’t get over the feminizing of names that end in “son” (Madison, Emerson, etc.) “Son” is masculine. It means SON. It would be like naming your male offspring “Emersdaughter” (or if you really wanted to get all Scandinavian with the patronymics “Emersdottir”) ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/107 "2009-10-08T14:03:57Z")
> [@Serenata67](#): > > I still can’t get over the feminizing of names that end in “son” (Madison, Emerson, etc.) “Son” is masculine. It means SON. See also: “Mac/Mc/Mykatrocity”, stupidity thereof. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/108 "2009-10-08T14:50:28Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > SHELLEY Duncan Also Courtney Duncan (no relation, AFAICT). ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/109 "2009-10-08T15:06:32Z")
Just a couple mundane, pointless notes for the thread: The since-cancelled TV show _Eli Stone_ featured a father-daughter lawyer team named Jordan and Morgan Weathersby. Took me about the whole first season to keep straight who was which. I went to high school with a guy named Rene, though he insisted it be pronounced “Rennie.” The only other Rennie I’d ever heard of was former Pittsburgh Pirate Rennie Stennett (short for Renaldo), so I guess he figured “Rennie” sounded more manly than “Ren_ay_.” ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/110 "2009-10-09T22:09:44Z")
I recall a movie I saw when I was home sick from school as a kid. This Brit guy was talking to a lovely young woman and she introduced herself as, “Hillary.” He responded, “Hillary? That’s a boy’s name!” It was a black and white, probably late 30s movie. It just struck me as odd as a child, since the only Hillary I’d ever heard of was a female character on one of my mom’s soaps. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/111 "2009-10-10T13:43:54Z")
Heidi Klum and Seal just had a kid: Lou Samuel. Yep, it’s a girl. So she has a boy’s first and last name. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/112 "2009-10-12T19:46:32Z")
With regard to Caitlín only an ignoramus here in Ireland would pronounce it “Kate-lynn”. If someone were reading it out they would usually either go with the Irish pronunciation or with simply “Kathleen”. The name “Katelynn” with the Irish spelling is often considered a “Dumb Yankicism” by many here. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/113 "2009-10-12T20:03:50Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Heidi Klum and Seal just had a kid: Lou Samuel. > > Yep, it’s a girl. So she has a boy’s first and last name. [Lou Dillon](http://erinflesch.typepad.com/.a/6a010536f705dd970b0120a5d81ccb970c-800wi) is a French actress and model (and daughter of Jane Birkin), though I’m not even sure if that’s her real name. The French love their odd nicknames, especially for girls. ---
**Author:** ![keakthesneak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/919ad9/32.png) [@keakthesneak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keakthesneak)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/114 "2011-10-04T01:29:33Z")
I’m not sure about English names that were feminine and became at least partly masculine, but In Romance tongues, there’s the name Maria (Mary) which is very important because of the Influence of Catholicism in Latin countries. This is masculinized to the very popular Mario. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/115 "2011-10-04T01:53:56Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > In the case of crossing genders, the trend is almost without exception from boy to girl. > > What are some names that have crossed over? I’ve noticed: > > Taylor > Tyler > Courtney > Casey > Leslie > > … > > A few years ago I met an older man name Laurie. Leslie is not really a crossover, more an spelling mistake. It used to be Leslie for a man and Lesley for a woman, but you are right that female Leslies have started appearing (and male ones have probably become rarer). Laurie, for a man, is an abbreviated, nickname form of Laurence (or Lawrence). It fairly common in Britain, and perfectly masculine. I don’t think there are any (certainly not many) women or girls called Laurence. I think Laurie for a woman is generally a nickname form of Laura, and found more in the U.S. than the U.K. Anyway, Laurie is not a crossover name, merely a result of the ‘contraction’ of two different, distinctively male and female names happening to lead to the same result. The same goes for Lou I think. It is a contraction of either Louis (male) or Louise (female). Was Alexis once exclusively male? You still occasionally find a male Alexis, but I think its more commonly female now. Over fifty years ago, my sister took ballet lessons from two women (sisters themselves) named John and Dick. (I think the story was that their father had really, really wished he had had boys.) Those don’t seem to have caught on as girls’ names. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/116 "2011-10-04T01:58:28Z")
This is really going back a ways, but Florence was originally a male name - as in Florence “Flo” Zeigfield. The classical M to F names, as noted above, are Evelyn, Francis, Leslie, Ashley and Vivian. The process has been going on a while - my great-aunt, who would be close to one hundred if she were still alive, was named Henrietta, but went through her whole life as “Tom”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/117 "2011-10-04T04:43:08Z")
> [@keakthesneak](#): > > I’m not sure about English names that were feminine and became at least partly masculine, but In Romance tongues, there’s the name Maria (Mary) which is very important because of the Influence of Catholicism in Latin countries. This is masculinized to the very popular Mario. That is not correct. Mario continues Latin Marius, and is a rather old name. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/118 "2011-10-04T05:43:41Z")
Gotta love name threads, where the prescriptivists show their true colors. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/119 "2011-10-04T12:20:51Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > This is really going back a ways, but Florence was originally a male name - as in Florence “Flo” Zeigfield. Actually, it was spelled Florenz. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371/120 "2011-10-04T14:44:43Z")
I just realized that this is a zombie thread, and that that much of the stuff I posted yesterday, particularly about Laurie, I already posted two years ago. :o However, I can’t let the following nonsense go: > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > This is really going back a ways, but Florence was originally a male name - as in Florence “Flo” Zeigfield. > > The classical M to F names, as noted above, are Evelyn, Francis, Leslie, Ashley and Vivian. The process has been going on a while - my great-aunt, who would be close to one hundred if she were still alive, was named Henrietta, but went through her whole life as “Tom”. _Florence_ was originally (the English version of) the name of a city. [Florence Nightingale](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_nightingale#Biography) was born there and named after the city of her birth (and because her parents thought it was a romantic place, I think). It became a popular female name because Florence Nightingale became a famous and much admired woman. As **FairyChatMom** points out Zeigfeld (not “Zeigfield”) was called Florenz, not Florence. There is no real connection. Also as already pointed out, _Francis_, _Leslie_, and _Vivian_ are all names that, for a long time, have existed in both male and female forms. It is possible that they started out long ago as exclusively male names and that the female forms developed later, but neither you nor anyone else had provided evidence that that is what has happened. There are lots of names that occur in both male and female forms. These ones are unusual only in that they although they differ in spelling, they do not differ in pronunciation. I do not think that anyone has provided evidence that names like Evelyn and Ashley (and I will add another: Aubrey) were ever exclusively male, either. Maybe they were originally non gendered names. However, I think it probably is true that once a name comes to be widely seen as girlish, boys are no longer given it. It is widely considered fine to give girls boyish names, but giving a girly name to a boy is a big no-no. I guess sexism is alive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-names-that-used-to-be-boy-names/512371.md?page=7)