# Girl Scouts: "Girls don't owe you a hug" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 23, 2017, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484 "2017-11-23T04:31:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/21 "2017-11-23T16:06:51Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Most of the backlash I’ve seen on Facebook has come from women who have said that kids should do what their elders tell them, no questions asked. :rolleyes: This reminds me of something we changed in the preschool where I work. When a kid would be defiant, he or she would be told “You don’t say ‘No’ to a grown-up,” which was supposed to mean, an adult in the school, but it dawned on us that kids aren’t going to make that distinction, and that was a really bad message, because a kid could be in a position where he or she might really need to say “No” to an adult. Now the kids are told, “You don’t tell a **teacher** ‘No.’” I realize that isn’t perfect either, but FWIW, there are only a few kids we ever say this to-- the chronically defiant ones, who probably are going to be able to say “No!” if they really need to. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/22 "2017-11-23T16:08:38Z")
I was sitting with my mom and brother when this story came on the news. She said “my parents made me hug everyone and I hated it. So creepy. I never made you guys do that, because I hated it.” Making kids hug people maybe is an old school thing. But I bet it’s still a thing. My nieces used to be told to hug me on their way out (we’re the same gender). Now sometimes they don’t, and sometimes they do but they are never told to do it. And it actually is super sweet when they decide to do it on their own. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/23 "2017-11-23T16:37:48Z")
The message shouldn’t be controversial, but I totally understand why it is. The expression “Give me some sugar” is as old as dirt. I can understand why someone would think not obligating an elder’s request for some “sugar” would be disrespectful. A lot of families pride themselves on being “a family that hugs” because this connotes a positive image. No one ever brags about “a family that respects personal boundaries.” ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/24 "2017-11-23T17:05:19Z")
I think there’s a big difference between encouraging your kid to be affectionate and mandating it. When my grandmother was dying, it meant a lot to her that my son, 3-4, would go kiss her. So I would tell him to, and afterwards I would tell him that she was lonely and that she really liked hugs and kisses from her grandchildren and tell him it was really nice that he had kissed her. But I didn’t mandate it, nor did I pressure him on the occasions he didn’t seem interested. In the same way, when he was little I’d tell him “go hug your cousin/aunt/grandpa”, because I think affection between family members is generally desirable. But if he’s reluctant, I don’t push or make him feel guilty. But I do remind him of the ritual, in the same way I tell him to say “thank you” and “good-bye” and “How are you?” ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/25 "2017-11-23T17:24:40Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Most of the backlash I’ve seen on Facebook has come from women who have said that kids should do what their elders tell them, no questions asked. :rolleyes: WTF ! When someone tell their child to give me a hug or a kiss I will tell the parent " Don’t made your child hug me if they don’t want to " Those women have to be living under a rock to be saying this ! ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/26 "2017-11-23T17:28:12Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > It seems like such a simple, non-controversial message: Girls have the right to decide who gets to touch them. I mean that’s just common sense and one way to protect them against sexual abuse, right? So why is facebook full of people (mostly men) freaking out about how it’s “ridiculous” and “obviously a ‘libtard’ idea” and “that’s what’s wrong with the world these days” and blah blah blah… > > Is there anyone here who thinks that they have the right to touch little girls even when it’s unwanted?? 😕 Is there anyone here who thinks they have the right to touch _anyone_ (little girls, little boys, adult men and women) even when it’s unwanted? This, of course doesn’t count for doctors or any type of essential touching. The article is just about not hugging people who don’t want hugs. > > I’m confused why this is controversial. > > [http://www.kivitv.com/news/national/girl-scouts-put-out-warning-about-requiring-daughters-to-hug-relatives](http://www.kivitv.com/news/national/girl-scouts-put-out-warning-about-requiring-daughters-to-hug-relatives) it’s because they long for the days of “boys will be boys” and they could just take what they wanted from women. apparently they feel put-upon because it’s not cool to act that way anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/27 "2017-11-23T17:32:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Except, of course, for those of us women who prefer NOT to be touched by anyone other than family and very close friends. It’s intrusive, uncomfortable, at times alarming or frighting (I’ve been attacked from behind, it REALLY sets my alarm bells screaming to get an unwanted from behind hug, it’s a hugely unpleasant, upsetting surge of adrenaline) and if we object we are told we’re being silly, unreasonable, it’s “just a hug”, etc., etc. > > One thing I did really, really appreciate after my husband died was that my co-workers did NOT simply come up and hug me without warning (this had happened to someone else at work after her brother was murdered). They would offer, and I would accept. It’s a half second exchange: one person opens arms, says “Would you like a hug?”, other person says “Sure” and then it happens (or doesn’t, if the other person says "not right now, but thanks for offering). It allows the recipient control. > > But just go right on thinking that because you see women hugging it’s ALWAYS OK, or wanted, or fine because we all know that all women are 100% alike with absolutely no differences whatsoever. Thanks. I’m someone who does not like to be touched by strangers - I don’t hug my mother in law and I’ve been married 22 years and she is a huggy person. I seldom hug my own parents. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/28 "2017-11-23T17:33:26Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > it’s because they long for the days of “boys will be boys” and they could just take what they wanted from women. > > apparently they feel put-upon because it’s not cool to act that way anymore. What’s next - will they expect men to realize that commanding a strange woman to “Smile!” isn’t appropriate? Civilization will fall. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/29 "2017-11-23T17:47:28Z")
What about hand shakes? Would anyone here tell kids they don’t need to shake hands with anyone if they don’t want to? I think at some level, there is a greeting protocol, and opting out is rude. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/30 "2017-11-23T17:52:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What about hand shakes? Would anyone here tell kids they don’t need to shake hands with anyone if they don’t want to? I think at some level, there is a greeting protocol, and opting out is rude. Girls definitely don’t need to handshake if they don’t want to: forcing them to do so is no better than rape. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/31 "2017-11-23T18:04:08Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Girls definitely don’t need to handshake if they don’t want to: forcing them to do so is no better than rape. It’s actually worse than the Holocaust. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/32 "2017-11-23T18:12:09Z")
I haven’t seen any outrage over the article but… I’m close friends with a couple of a young daughter. To her, I was “Uncle Grrr”, and she would always come running to give me a hug when I came walking through that door. Until she got to be about 12 or 13. That’s (understandably) when the hugs stopped. One day when I came over, her mother demanded she give me a hug. She obviously didn’t want to. So when she came over, I just said: “That’s okay, how about a fist bump?” (which she did). It was an awkward exchange, and I couldn’t believe her own fucking mother would put such a demand on her daughter! Seriously, WTF? ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/33 "2017-11-23T18:12:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What about hand shakes? Would anyone here tell kids they don’t need to shake hands with anyone if they don’t want to? I think at some level, there is a greeting protocol, and opting out is rude. I see no reason to tell a child to shake hands with an adult and if any adult think this is rude that is their problem . Children are not parents property , their feeling should be respected at all time ! ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/34 "2017-11-23T18:20:27Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Girls definitely don’t need to handshake if they don’t want to: forcing them to do so is no better than rape. Channeling a certain other well-known member of this board, are we? > [@jkirkman](#): > > I like, try to hug with the least contact possible, because I don’t want to be the “creepy uncle”. The astonishing thing here is that _any and every_ interaction between two people (and specifically between a male and a female when initiated by the male) is seen firstly as a sexual interaction. There’s a degree of fear and loathing and hatred running throughout this thread and _all_ these similar threads that’s just horrific. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/35 "2017-11-23T18:25:36Z")
> [@purplehearingaid](#): > > I see no reason to tell a child to shake hands with an adult and if any adult think this is rude that is their problem . Children are not parents property , their feeling should be respected at all time ! Really? So if a child is sick, and doesn’t “feel” like going to the doctor, you would respect her feelings? Children need to be taught and they need to be socialized. This idea that you should “respect their feelings at all times” is nonsense. That’s good way to raise a bunch of sociopaths (at worst) or a bunch of special snowflakes (at best). I can believe there might rare instances where a child has a true phobia about shaking hands but phobias should be dealt with and cures attempted, not encouraged. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/36 "2017-11-23T18:32:32Z")
I come from a hugging family. At family get-togethers, everyone hugs everyone else when they come in and when they leave. Well, _almost_ everyone, that is: There have been one or two who haven’t wanted to. And you know, when you’re going in for the hug, it’s really easy (even for a social inept like me) to tell when the other person isn’t, and to cut it short before contact. So, yeah, hug when the other person wants a hug, and don’t when they don’t, and it’s not hard to tell the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/37 "2017-11-23T18:43:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What about hand shakes? Would anyone here tell kids they don’t need to shake hands with anyone if they don’t want to? I think at some level, there is a greeting protocol, and opting out is rude. There are a LOT of times handshaking is inappropriate. A considerable number of cultures object to unrelated men and women having ANY physical contact. I would not expect a Muslim man or an Orthodox Jewish man to shake my hand. If he offers I will reciprocate, but it’s very rare for that to happen. There are people with skin conditions like vitiligo, psoraiasis, and the like which are unsightly and they may not want to call attention to their hands. There are people with deformed hands, or missing hands. I think it’s possible to teach children that handshaking is a default, but here are the main exceptions to the rule (man/woman and certain cultures) and/or ways to handle awkward situations (if the person only has a left hand then shake with the left, for example). You’re making this much more difficult than this actually is in real life. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/38 "2017-11-23T18:44:00Z")
There are hugs and then there are hugs. A simple, brief hug is not so different from a handshake. I think the issue is more that adults don’t have the right to manhandle children, and children should be told it’s OK to not accept that. No pinching of cheeks. no rummaging through hair, not fixing of clothing (unless you are the parent). And if there is someone who takes a hug too far, then the children should feel free to back away. It should be a mutual action, and one partner should try and turn it into a power trip. But I don’t see why telling a kid to hug his grandma is such a big deal. Just be vigilant of overly sexualized hugging, and have a talk with other adults if need be. But most of the time, a hug is just a hug. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/39 "2017-11-23T18:44:17Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I haven’t seen any outrage over the article but… > > I’m close friends with a couple of a young daughter. To her, I was “Uncle Grrr”, and she would always come running to give me a hug when I came walking through that door. Until she got to be about 12 or 13. That’s (understandably) when the hugs stopped. One day when I came over, her mother demanded she give me a hug. She obviously didn’t want to. So when she came over, I just said: “That’s okay, how about a fist bump?” (which she did). > > It was an awkward exchange, and I couldn’t believe her own fucking mother would put such a demand on her daughter! Seriously, WTF? For what it’s worth, I think you handled it in a fantastic manner. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484/40 "2017-11-23T18:47:22Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I haven’t seen any outrage over the article but… > I’m close friends with a couple of a young daughter. To her, I was “Uncle Grrr”, and she would always come running to give me a hug when I came walking through that door. Until she got to be about 12 or 13. That’s (understandably) when the hugs stopped. One day when I came over, her mother demanded she give me a hug. She obviously didn’t want to. So when she came over, I just said: “That’s okay, how about a fist bump?” (which she did). > It was an awkward exchange, and I couldn’t believe her own fucking mother would put such a demand on her daughter! Seriously, WTF? that one could simply be her mother not wanting to deal with the notion that her daughter isn’t “her little girl” anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-scouts-girls-dont-owe-you-a-hug/802484.md?page=3)