# Girl suspended for wearing "Barbie is a Lesbian" t-shirt to school **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 20, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245 "2003-06-20T18:54:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/101 "2003-06-24T02:06:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Why complain about shaved heads when apparently the real problem is swastikas? Maybe I’m naive, but are swasticas really a disruption? I mean, it’s true that they are offensive, but as this thread has shown, people’s tastes vary amazingly wildly. Provided the neo-Nazis are learning quietly and not breaking any rules, why make a fuss? ---
**Author:** ![Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji_Kitakyusho)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/102 "2003-06-24T05:22:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\*[Link](http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?floc=FF-RTO-PLS&idq=/ff/story/0002/20030620/081281419.htm). > > "NEW YORK (Reuters) - A New York teen-ager alleged on Thursday that teachers violated her civil rights when they suspended her from school for wearing a “Barbie is a Lesbian” T-shirt. > > “Lawyers who filed a lawsuit on her behalf in Manhattan federal court said 14-year-old Natalie Young is openly lesbian and that a teacher laughed at her, calling the garment and its reference to the popular Barbie doll “inappropriate.”” > > Spiffy. As difficult as it is ANYWAY to be openly gay in grade school (or early in high school, since this article didn’t specifically mention what it was), you get this shit piled on top. > > Fucking bullshit. They even made her remove rainbow-colored beads from her hair. Who, again, are those going to hurt? \*\* That’s just wrong. Barbie’s definitely bi… -FK ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/103 "2003-06-24T07:59:59Z")
Well, I think it’s overkill to suspend her, but kids do get sent home from school all the time for wearing whatever their particular school deems “inappropriate.” Some decades ago I regularly got sent home for too-short skirts (actually not, they were rolled at the waist, but it was a good opportunity to skip a couple of classes). At my son’s school the following things were not allowed: anything on your head (baseball cap, do-rag, bee antennae–I think they allowed beads in hair, but the other prohibitions carried through to adults visiting the school), anything promoting or appearing to promote drugs or violence, and this included a shirt I got at a mystery convention that merely said “Don’t forget to breathe” touting Mary Willis Walker’s book _Under the Beetle’s Cellar_, certain colors, dress that consisted too much of _any_ color (???), short shorts, shirts/blouses exposing the midriff, tank tops and–well, there were about two pages of these restrictions. Anything ever known to be worn or fancied by gang members, anything sexy–home to change! And the interpretation was not open to question. See previous post re: salmon-colored shirt deemed red by color-vision-impaired asst. principal and touting a school-sanctioned scholastic event to boot. From what I’ve read in the cited stories it sounds to me like this girl was deliberately tweaking–just being real in-your-face to whoever was tormenting her, which is understandable–but then got offended when the consequences weren’t to her liking. I note the addition at the bottom of the story that “if this contributes to her college fund, well, all to the good.” (Paraphrased from memory.) That statement moved me from sorta on her side to “Why would you wear that?” ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/104 "2003-06-24T08:08:26Z")
I thought **shrew** made her points very well. And having once been one of those school uniform wearing kids, I’ll echo the fact that we were all very happy that the system left the self-expression for _outside_ the classroom. In case you forgot, the only expression that should be happening in the classroom is the teacher’s. pan ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/105 "2003-06-24T09:39:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by shrew \* > **Do you see where the crux of this problem lies? Do you see that people are so incredibly narcissistic that while spouting “freedom of speech”, they simultaneously try to sew shut the mouth of those opposing them? You’re crying “free speech”, but you’re telling me I’m a “bloody bitch” for daring to disagree with you?** Very well said. Good points in your previous post too. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/106 "2003-06-24T09:39:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\*Maybe I’m naive, but are swasticas really a disruption? I mean, it’s true that they are offensive, but as this thread has shown, people’s tastes vary amazingly wildly. Provided the neo-Nazis are learning quietly and not breaking any rules, why make a fuss? \*\* To quote John McEnroe: “You _cannot_ be serious!” Maybe, just perhaps, the best thing a school can do for the budding neo-nazi is let the flippin’ kid know that it will not allow expressions of hate, and that such expressions are unacceptable. Is this so hard to fathom? ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/107 "2003-06-24T10:45:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kabbes \* > \*\* > In case you forgot, the only expression that should be happening in the classroom is the teacher’s. > > pan \*\* I respectfully disagree. In my view the job of a teacher is not only to teach but to teach kids how to use their brains, express their opinions and back it up with facts. Like what we’re doing here. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/108 "2003-06-24T11:02:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfje \* > \*\*In my view the job of a teacher is not only to teach but to teach kids how to use their brains, express their opinions and back it up with facts. \*\* Sometimes. Depending on the class, of course. Using one’s brain is a given, but there aren’t many opinions involved in maths or science lessons. But that is beside the point. Learning to express an opinion is not the same thing as drawing attention to oneself. And most important of all, **in the classroom, any opinions and expressions thereof should relate to the subject at hand** and **not** to whatever subject some 15 year old decides is their hobbyhorse _du jour_. If the class is one in which opinions and substantiation are valid, then by all means debate that topic upon which the teacher has determined the lesson is formed. That is not the same as a blanket permission to shout your little head off about whatever subject passes through what passes for your thoughts. > [@](#): > > **Like what we’re doing here.** Well, that _is_ a matter of opinion I suppose. pan ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/109 "2003-06-24T12:46:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > \*\*To quote John McEnroe: “You _cannot_ be serious!” > Maybe, just perhaps, the best thing a school can do for the budding neo-nazi is let the flippin’ kid know that it will not allow expressions of hate, and that such expressions are unacceptable. Is this so hard to fathom? \*\* I am perfectly serious, and yes, it is that hard to fathom. Why is it unacceptable? Because you say so? There are very many who find ‘Barbie is a lesbian’ or ‘I’m not gay, but my boyfriend is’ unacceptable. I repeat my query: if the neo-nazi is simply expressing a plea for intolerance, why is this not acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/110 "2003-06-24T12:48:19Z")
Because the “Barbie is a Lesbian” isn’t promoting intolerance. We should never give fascists free reign to believe their hate is acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/111 "2003-06-24T13:23:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*Because the “Barbie is a Lesbian” isn’t promoting intolerance. > > We should never give fascists free reign to believe their hate is acceptable. \*\* So what you’re saying is that we should all respect the concept of free speech. Unless we disagree with said speech. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/112 "2003-06-24T13:53:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robertliguori \* > \*\*I am perfectly serious, and yes, it is that hard to fathom. Why is it unacceptable? Because you say so? There are very many who find ‘Barbie is a lesbian’ or ‘I’m not gay, but my boyfriend is’ unacceptable. I repeat my query: if the neo-nazi is simply expressing a plea for intolerance, why is this not acceptable? \*\* You are teetering on the brink of idiocy here. Better take a moment to catch your balance. I won’t ask if you can tell the difference between a controversial expression and a _hateful_ expression, because you obviously can’t. The litmus test is this, for future reference: if it incites you in some way, but ultimately no one’s rights are infringed, it is probably just controversial. If someone is proclaiming race superiority, that might just indicate the message is more sinister. Your mileage may very, as does your grasp of simple concempts. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/113 "2003-06-24T13:55:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > \*\*So what you’re saying is that we should all respect the concept of free speech. Unless we disagree with said speech. > > Marc \*\* This may surprise you, but denying a child the opportunity to express hatred is not a constitutional issue. Imagine that! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/114 "2003-06-24T13:59:35Z")
Marc, **robert** , and **Waverly** raise a legitimate issue. Perhaps we need a GD thread on the acceptable limits of “hate speech” vis-à-vis the freedom to express opinion, no matter how outré. It might also be worth debating what are acceptable standards for school rules – I think nobody disagrees that distruptive behavior may be legitimately banned and that within that limit and the need for a focus on the business of educating students, freedom of expression is a right. But that leaves a huge gap between the consensus premises, and I see conflicts of viewpoint that are not being adequately expressed but rather identified and argued against on a case-by-case basis. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/115 "2003-06-24T14:22:59Z")
I wish I had time to debate, Polycarp. I will, however offer this: The [Third circuit court of appeals](http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/recentop/week/022384p.pdf) states: > [@](#): > > the undoubted freedom to advocate unpopular and controversial views in schools and classrooms must be balanced against the society’s countervailing interest in teaching students the boundaries of socially appropriate behavior. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/116 "2003-06-24T14:26:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Times have changed, and kids are more conscious of their sexuality now than in times past. Yeahh…ummm…sure. :rolleyes: You have a cite for that??? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/117 "2003-06-24T14:46:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > \*\*This may surprise you, but denying a child the opportunity to express hatred is not a constitutional issue. Imagine that! \*\* Wait, why isn’t it? Denying an adult the opportunity to express hatred is a constitutional issue. If an adult wants toadvocate racial superiority or religious intolerance, for example, he has a constitutional right to. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/118 "2003-06-24T15:00:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\*Wait, why isn’t it? Denying an adult the opportunity to express hatred is a constitutional issue. If an adult wants toadvocate racial superiority or religious intolerance, for example, he has a constitutional right to. \*\* Did you not see quote I just posted? You will find similar sentiments in several recent cases. We need to look beyond the simplistic first amendment battle cry - there are other _other_ rights and priorities as well. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/119 "2003-06-24T15:09:16Z")
> [@](#): > > **The girl wears a shirt that is offensive;** Three pages into this and I still have seen anyone explain _how_ the shirt is offensive? Is being a lesbian in and of itself offensive? Is the idea of a doll having a sexuality offensive? I just don’t understand what is offensive about the statement; it’s a damned joke. Oversensitive much? ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245/120 "2003-06-24T15:24:30Z")
I’m with you, **Homebrew** , I don’t think the text and /or t-shirt is offensive in the least. I suspect it’s the fact that she was warned not to do it, and then she went and did it anyway. Plus, she did it in school _sigh_ anyways. I remember seeing T-shirts that proclaimed **Barbie is a slut** , and I know Julie Andrews walked around for years with a badge stating **Mary Poppins is a Junkie** because she was sick and tired of only ever being asked to play sweet natured women. for fecks sake people, we’re talking about fictional characters and dolls here. chill. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-suspended-for-wearing-barbie-is-a-lesbian-t-shirt-to-school/183245.md?page=7)