For the record, I recall hearing something about the “Straight Pride” incident but don’t remember the thread here about it, so I just wanted to say that suspending a kid for wearing a “Straight Pride” shirt is just as fucked up. As is, by the way, banning certain colors just because gangs might use them or banning Confederate flag decals.
For the record, I recall hearing something about the “Straight Pride” incident but don’t remember the thread here about it, so I just wanted to say that suspending a kid for wearing a “Straight Pride” shirt is just as fucked up. As is, by the way, banning certain colors just because gangs might use them or banning Confederate flag decals.
FWIW Otto, I’ve linked to a story about the Straight Pride t-shirt (and the court ruling) in my post at the top of this page of threads.
Perhaps sometimes, but not in this case. A student who disrupts class because he just can’t keep quiet about this girl’s shirt is a student who would find some other excuse for being disruptive anyway.
Disturbing class is unacceptable no matter what your excuse is - and the girl with the shirt isn’t the one disturbing class. If a kid interrupts class with comments about the teacher’s ugly tie, what do you do? Send the teacher home to change his tie, suspend the teacher for a few days to teach him a lesson about ugly ties, or just tell the kid to keep it to himself?
I hope this is a joke. If students are allowed to praise the school through the medium of T-shirt messages, why shouldn’t they be allowed to criticize it?
I honestly do not see one as being any more offensive then the other. I think it is really silly to be against a Straight Pride t-shirt and be all for a Barbie is a Lesbian shirt.
Marc
Perhaps, but every gay man I know (and for a straight guy, I know quite a few) wasn’t really sure about their sexuality until they were in their late teens, and did not immediately have established sexual identities even after becoming comfortable with their own sexual desire. I’m straight, but can’t honestly say that I was sure about that until I was 17-18, because I don’t think teenagers know right away what their sexuality is. That I found women attractive when I was 14 doesn’t mean that I necessarily would have continued to do so throughout my life, or that I might not in my maturity have found men sexually attractive as well. Heck, some gay men find women attractive enough to date them in high school, marry them, and only later discover that their sexual identity lies elsewhere. To each his own, but I don’t think we know what we really want sexually at such a young age as 14, and I suspect that’s physiological, not merely a relic of an outdated sexually repressed culture.
I knew several people in high school, who in their neverending quest to be “different”, proclaimed themselves adherents of any number of radical philosophies which they would later disavow. And on a more pedestrian level we all knew people in high school who pretended to be something they weren’t to stand out from the crowd. It’s the way of teenagers.
I don’t know if this girl is being honest or not. I don’t know her. But I do remember what teens are like, and I would not be surprised if her claims to be a lesbian were either A) entirely a ruse designed to attract attention, or B) premature and misinformed. People can be so deluded about their own selves that one’s self-description is quite often one of the least reliable sources of information about that person.
Agreed on the first point, skeptical of the second. There have long been those arguing that acceptance of non-heterosexual realtionships requires public recognition of the so-called “gay community” (really, is there such a thing at all, gay people are no more similiar to each other in any meaningful way than straight people are, right?) Will it change a person’s opinion of homosexuality to find a visible homosexual among his circle of friends? Will visibility alter thought patterns? I’ve seen this work, and I’ve seen this fail. I’ve seen people become accepting of homosexuality because they find a respected comrade revealing his sexuality. I’ve also seen people turn away from the visible homosexual, ostracize him, and be quite cruel in my opinion.
IMHO, I think every homosexual should feel it’s his/her right to reveal as much or as little about their sexuality as they wish, to gamble the risks and rewards as they see them. No one should feel an obligation to discuss, nor a prohibition upon discussing, their sexuality. That is ultimately a private issue. Yet I have something of a suspicion of those who trumpet their sexuality as differing from the norm, especially at such a young age as this girl. Even if she is being honest about her lesbianism, she is conducting herself so as to draw attention to it, to provoke her fellow students with slogan T-shirts, to bring the eyes of both admirer and enemy upon herself.
That perhaps these people ought to be provoked, ought to have their beliefs challenged, doesn’t make this particular girl’s motives any better. If she really is thinking about the benefits of her actions to the world as a whole, then she would be the first 14 year old ever to think that way. Teens take up causes to feed their own ego (as do most adults), not to serve a greater good. And if she was genuine, she basically invited controversy, and she got it!!! Don’t feel bad for her, in that case, recognize that she suceeded.
Let an old lady of 48 present a different take on this.
Back in the Dark Ages, when I was in high school(grad 1973) a new toy came out. It was called Clackers, and consisted of a ring that had two strings suspended from it, with a molded Lucite? sphere attached to the end of each of the strings. The object was to hold the ring in one hand and bounce the two spheres against each other, making a “clacking” noise. If you did it hard enough the spheres would not only bounce at the bottom of the strings but then would fly upward and knock against each other.
The toy was banned after a teacher was playing with one and, not being skillful, bonked himself hard on the nose with the spheres. Being banned made them especially desirable and all around the school one could hear the furtive “clack, clack, clack” of the evil toy. Whereas if we had been required to play with them, tested and graded and so forth, they would have been dropped in an instant.
The administrators that banned the “offensive” T-shirt were going about it in the wrong way. They are coming off as being heavy handed and dictatorial to the students, and to high schoolers that’s like waving a red cape in front of a bull in the ring.
If they really wanted the shirt gone they should have required everybody to wear one, had a test on Barbie history and psychology and so on. That would have taken all the fun out of it and the student may have stopped wearing it on her own.
I am a firm believer in free speech, even free speech meant to tweak the noses of the powers that be, which the Barbie shirt seemed to be doing. I also believe that school officials should have the power ban behavior and/or garb that would advocate illegal activities(“KILL THE PRESIDENT”) comes to mind. But the shirt was not advocating something illegal, just something provocative, so, IMHO, the school should have left well enough alone.
I think they should all wear school uniforms. That way there’s no issue. They can express themselves after school.
I thought Barbie was “bi”.
spooje writes: “I think they should all wear school uniforms.”
Why not shave everyone’s head while you’re at it?
I love that thing, my mother used to hide whenever she caught me with it, but that’s what made it so fun…that it was annoying.
(I was suspended for wearing a tee that said “I want to be just like Barbie…that itch has everything.”)
Exactly, because they are the same, after all. I mean every place of employment or activity that requires a uniform or some semblance of dress code also requires shaved heads. :rolleyes:
I don’t know why they suspended her, myself. My own school is four hundred years old and very conservative, but I went in last week in a “Barbie is a Slut” T-shirt. I got a few grins and a thumbs-up from my Latin teacher, but that was all. Certainly nothing like a suspension. They couldn’t suspend me if they wanted to, actually, but that’s not the point. I’m sure the thought didn’t cross anyone’s mind.
You crazy Americans and your no-school-uniform ways. You’re so sweet.
pan
That’s only because you lack perspective. I’ve taught in American schools and I’ve taught in British schools. My British students feel sorry for my American students when I show them pictures. They say things like, “But Miss, don’t they get picked on if they don’t have nice clothes? Don’t their parents spend way too much money on wardrobes for teenagers who are just going to outgrow the clothes anyway…But Miss, did that kid really get away with that hair? But it’s so inappropriate for school!”
To which I try to explain to them that Americans see things very differently. The job of the teenager is to make life hell for teachers. The job of the teacher is to put up with it because we’re teaching them to “Express themselves”. Bullshit. Their parents need to pay for some damn guitar lessons or something 'cause I’m tired of being the one to “tolerate” their disruptive fashion statements that interrupt or prevent learning. And if you think hair can’t be disruptive, try teaching a class where someone comes in with a shaven head and is wearing standard Neo-Nazi gear. I am amazed by how much learning goes in the British school where I currently teach; I have so much more time to devote to education because I’m not so busy teaching kids how to “express themselves” appropriately. Hm, my British kids speak 3 languages, play 2 instruments (at least) apiece, and all participate in local theatre or sport…and I had an American student who thought she lived in the state of Atlanta?
I would not have suspended the girl for the “Barbie is a lesbian” t-shirt, but the sort of rhetoric on this thread is what makes the rest of the world laugh at Americans. “She has the right to wear the shirt!” Yes, she does, but if she was being discriminated against for being a lesbian, she has bigger fish to fry at that school than what sort of clothing is allowed.
Pick your battles, darlin’.
Now we have simplistic and simple minded posts from shrew.
Why do I have a feeling her British students say Miss and think “Bloody Bitch”?
On preview, I think Shrew makes some great points. So what if her students do think she’s a bitch, at least they’re learning something. Teachers are not there to make friends with kids nor are they there to take their adolescent crap. Why is it simplistic to expect school to be a place of learning, not a fashion show or a place to declare your or a doll’s sexuality on a t-shirt?
I think high school is focused way too much on the social aspects and not nearly enough of the educational ones. With school uniforms, no one has to worry about what they’re wearing. If you’re a punk rocker, a computer geek, a jock, whatever, you’re all wearing the same thing. Instead of letting kids get wrapped up in trying to fit in or trying not to fit in, why not let them start out at an even playing field. Maybe instead of instantly judging each other by their clothes, they’ll learn something from someone they normally wouldn’t have given the time of day. And it makes it a bit more of a challenge to figure out who you really are. Can you be a punk rocker without the “punk” uniform?
As for the girl in the OP, I’m sure she knew it was provocative and would get a reaction. Having been one of those attention-getters in high school, there is nothing better than pissing off a teacher with something so silly. But looking back, I probably would have done a lot better in my classes if I wasn’t so busy trying to look cool and I would have learned that appearances are not the only way to express yourself and are certainly not a good way to judge people. I think school officials were well within their bounds to make her change, as long as they’re even-handed with other dress-code violators. Besides, this gal got just what she wanted. She’d probably be upset if no one made a fuss ever her oh-so-wild shirt.
Huh. Still in the thread.
Howzabout answering the question that MGibson and I asked…
you said
Both MGibson and I (and Otto, it appears) don’t think there’s a damn bit of difference in wearing those shirts…especially in the context of the Tinker ruling. (FTR, I’m NOT saying that I support wearing either shirt…or that I agree with Tinker or subsequent interpretations). So again. Explain why, in the context of Tinker, “it is not the same thing”.
That’s the most pathetic attempt at a retort I’ve seen since…well, since I taught Year 7 English this morning. When I make comments going against the grain of the thread, I expect intelligent responses even though most people are likely to disagree with me. I get called a “bloody bitch”? Well, consider me impressed by your wit and grasp of the English language. A* for you.
Now to the important question, Mockingbird, which part of my post led you to the conclusion that I am indeed a “bloody bitch”? Now try and articulate yourself using coherent sentences if possible. Is it that I have insulted American schools? The American educational system? Or that I have dared say that Americans themselves are arrogant, sub-educated, self-absorbed, and far too focused on the wrong problems in society? Do any of those accusations surprise you? Are you completely unaware of the reputation of Americans throughout the world?
By God, I’m American and proud, but I can see my own faults and criticize my own countrymen. It’s my right. It is my right just as it is the right of a high school girl to wear a shirt that says “Barbie is a lesbian”. As you have so eloquently demonstrated, just because it is my right doesn’t mean that ignorant knee-jerk prats won’t get offended by my rights.
The girl wears a shirt that is offensive; people freak out.
I make a statement that is offensive to you, Mockingbird; you freak out.
Do you see where the crux of this problem lies? Do you see that people are so incredibly narcissistic that while spouting “freedom of speech”, they simultaneously try to sew shut the mouth of those opposing them? You’re crying “free speech”, but you’re telling me I’m a “bloody bitch” for daring to disagree with you?
Again, I think America has bigger fish to fry than t-shirts. We have a fundamental flaw in our “freedom of speech” beliefs that keeps us from seeing how the average American indeed does not believe in freedom of speech if that speech disagrees with them.
There were plenty of shaved heads at my high school, and they never caused any sort of disruption. Why complain about shaved heads when apparently the real problem is swastikas?