# Girl? Why not woman? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 5, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613 "2005-05-05T23:30:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/1 "2005-05-05T23:30:02Z")
I guess it’s the atmosphere and times (environment) I came up in (I’m 60), and the fact that I’ve had a lot of close relationships with women, but I feel a niggling discomfort with referring to grown women as “girls”. I don’t even think of my two grown daughters as girls. Most women I’ve known didn’t want to be called girls. What happened? I know that now most (it seems) women call themselves, and prefer to be called, “girls”. Even old ladies my age. 😉 It’s not the same for us men. Few of us are regularly and casually called “boys”. I’ve _never_ heard a man say “Us boys are going to Macy’s and poke around in the Levy’s section for a while”. “I’ll call Jim and see what he’s wearing”. Does this mean we’re superior again? 😃 Peace, mangeorge BTW; I realize that men are more often called boys back east, like in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/2 "2005-05-05T23:57:59Z")
I call all women girls and all men boys or guys. I don’t see a distinction between the terms like some do. I’m 26, ftr. ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/3 "2005-05-06T00:00:33Z")
Oh, I forgot to add. All females are girls, except for **Eve**. She is a _ **lady** _. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/4 "2005-05-06T00:06:35Z")
A group of women calling themselves “girls” in a casual situation is o.k. in my book. I suppose men sometimes refer to themselves as “boys” in the similar cases, as in “boys’ night out,” or “the boys are getting together for poker.” But it was not too long ago that ANY woman, even in a professional situation, was a "girl. " Especially black women, who were \*always \* called “girl.” It was insulting then, and IMHO it’s demeaning and insulting now. I’m of mangeorge’s generation. I began teaching in the ‘60s, in an integrated middle-class high school. We were strongly cautioned NOT to refer to the male students as “boy.” The recommended term was “young man.” It was acceptable to refer to the boys’ gym or team, though. I find it irritating if a person refers to his secretary, for example, as his “girl.” She’s an adult and a woman, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Woodruff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sarah\_Woodruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarah_Woodruff)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/5 "2005-05-06T00:23:51Z")
I’m 24, which means that most people, including those younger than me, refer to me as a “girl” or “chick.” (Although the opthalmologist I saw recently referred to me as a “young lady” 😃 ). It really doesn’t bother me at all. On the odd occasion when I’m referred to as a “young woman”, I automatically think: here comes trouble. Most women middle-aged and older aren’t called “girls” here (Aus), in my experience. I would say “that lady” if I were speaking of a female of, say, 30 or older, just because it sounds more polite. Most adult males are “guys” or “men.” ---
**Author:** ![StarsApart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecc23a/32.png) [@StarsApart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarsApart)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/6 "2005-05-06T00:31:48Z")
I’m 18, and a girl. Males have always been “guys” to me and females my age or younger have always been “girls.” I call every female older than me a lady. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/7 "2005-05-06T00:34:47Z")
AFAIK, “girl” and “boy” are acceptable for _informal_ speech between intimates, same as always. What they no longer are, are acceptable for speech with non-intimates or in formal situations – just like you can still call your spouse “sweetie” but not your secretary. (FWIW, I almost always call myself a boy if I can get away with it.) ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/8 "2005-05-06T00:35:21Z")
How about “gal”? Or did I miss a memo when it was declared backwards and sexist, or something? ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/9 "2005-05-06T01:19:25Z")
_This girl is a woman now, and she’s learnin’, learnin’ to live…_ ---
**Author:** ![CateAyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@CateAyo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CateAyo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/10 "2005-05-06T01:30:29Z")
I think that the use of “girls” is especially bad when it is framed as a diminutive. An example; the university where I previously taught regularly posted hand drawn posters announcing basketball games. Invariably these posters were worded as follows: BASKETBALL… Men’s game at 7:OO, girls’ game at 5:00. I also take issue with sports teams being named “Lady (anything)” as in, Eagles/Lady Eagles, Tigers/Lady Tigers. It seems to establish the prottype as male and any variation from that as requiring a qualifier (as in WOMAN doctor or FEMALE attorney). Language is far more powerful than we sometimes realize and word choice really does mean something! I hope one day to go to a zoo (generally hideous places) and see a cage labeled “Leopard” with an adjacent cage labeled “Lady Leopard”. —climbs down off soap box— now, I’m tired. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/11 "2005-05-06T01:35:19Z")
I call just about any female younger than my mom a “girl.” Males younger than my dad are refered to as “dudes.” ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/12 "2005-05-06T10:21:43Z")
I feel the same way CateAyo feels, and I think I’ve spoken the exact same words before. As for me, a 39-year-old woman with a career, I expect to be referred to as a woman and called “ma’am” by strangers and people who can’t remember my name. I’m not likely to participate in anything intended for ‘girls.’ To add to what CateAyo said, it’s also really icky when anyone talks about a man dating a girl. That’s just wrong. If you’re dating a girl, you’d better be a boy. ---
**Author:** ![Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stark_Raven_Mad)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/13 "2005-05-06T10:54:35Z")
I always thought females actually _preferred_ to be called girls, and feel young and everything. My mom got all depressed the first time someone called addressed her with “madam”. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/14 "2005-05-06T12:32:34Z")
No. I am not a girl. No female over the age of 18 is a girl. I prefer to refer to individuals as “a person” if gender is irrelevant to the discussion, and it’s very rare that gender is relevant. ---
**Author:** ![pasunejen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58956e/32.png) [@pasunejen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pasunejen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/15 "2005-05-06T13:19:19Z")
I’m 22 in a week, and it freaks me out if anyone refers to me as a woman or a lady. I don’t know what to do with it. For that matter, I am incapable of referring to any of my male acquaintances of the same age as men. They’re “guys” or “boys”. It’s not that we’re particularly immature, either. It just sounds _wrong_. ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/16 "2005-05-06T13:23:10Z")
I propose getting around the whole girl/woman conundrum by declaring that, henceforth, they will all be referred to as “chicks.” ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/17 "2005-05-06T13:32:42Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > just like you can still call your spouse “sweetie” but not your secretary. Eh? That ruins a lot of fun role-playing situtations. I’m going to rebel from society and call my spouse my secretary on occasions. ---
**Author:** ![Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f19dbf/32.png) [@Only\_Mostly\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Only_Mostly_Dead)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/18 "2005-05-06T13:41:32Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > _This girl is a woman now, and she’s learnin’, learnin’ to live…_ In roughly chronological order (or is Looking Glass before Neil Diamond?): _I’m a travelin’ man and I’ve made a lotta stops all over the world. And in every port I own the heart of at least one lovely girl_ _Girl, you’ll be a woman soon. Please, come take my hand. Girl, you’ll be a woman soon. Soon you’ll need a man._ _Brandy, you’re a fine girl. What a good wife you would be. But my life, my lover, my lady is the sea._ _But when the working day is done, girls just want to have fun._ Being late for work, I don’t have time to come up with more, including some current examples. Point being, pop music as a mirror shows that it’s been “girl” for quite some time. You pick your situations, though. “Girl” in a club: Fine. “Girl” in the workplace, nope. (My fiance was called “dollbaby” in the past year, being mistaken as a student in the high school where she is training. Where on the offense-o-meter do we stick that one?) -OMD _I’m not a girl, not yet a woman_ ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/19 "2005-05-06T14:59:20Z")
The problem is that “girl” is the feminine counterpart, both of the word “boy” and of the word “guy.” ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/20 "2005-05-06T15:10:02Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > The problem is that “girl” is the feminine counterpart, both of the word “boy” and of the word “guy.” This is exactly what I came here to post… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613.md?page=2)