# Girl? Why not woman? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 5, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613 "2005-05-05T23:30:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/41 "2005-05-07T15:30:08Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > So is a “hag.” _This_ is a hag; From [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com); > [@](#): > > 2: eellike cyclostome having a tongue with horny teeth in a round mouth surrounded by eight tentacles; feeds on dead or trapped fishes by boring into their bodies 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pasunejen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58956e/32.png) [@pasunejen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pasunejen)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/42 "2005-05-07T16:41:32Z")
I’d like to say it’s a generational thing, but recently I had a friend get on my case for calling myself a girl and him a boy. So I guess it may not be. It’s not that I’m afraid of aging, or trying to hold onto my childhood. I just cannot conceive of being called a woman at this point in my life, not without laughing in the face of the person who said it. “Young woman” would be fine, and probably preferred from people who didn’t know me at least a little. “Girl” is preferable for most. I don’t know where the cut-off is. I think it’s getting close, though I’ll have to be over 25 at least before I take “woman” from anybody close to me. I don’t think it’ll ever sound right coming from my parents. But it’s not like I attach all kinds of importance to the distinction, either. I’m not sure I get all the coming-of-age turning-into-a-woman stuff. I may have changed a lot since I was young, but I’m still fundamentally the same person. I mean, what, am I supposed to be striving for card-carrying membership of the grown-up club? _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stark_Raven_Mad)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/43 "2005-05-07T17:18:49Z")
Youth in females (wymmyn, X-chromosome deficient, etc) is sexually attractive. All other conditions being similar, females, much more so than men, are burdened with concerns of their deteriorating physical attractiveness as they age. When a man refers to a female as a ‘girl’, the man is simply implying that the female is still, in his eyes, young, and thus attractive. I know there are some who consider this sexist and condescending, but until this thread I’d thought it polite to call most females girls. If an acquaintance of mine had any objections, I’d happily replace ‘girl’ with any other noun of her choosing, except maybe ‘daddy’. ---
**Author:** ![Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stark_Raven_Mad)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/44 "2005-05-07T17:20:59Z")
That would be **Y** -deficient. :smack: In my defence, I had severe and undiagnosed ADD in high school. Also, I am slightly drunk. ---
**Author:** ![sj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@sj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sj2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/45 "2005-05-07T19:05:12Z")
\*\*mangeorge \*\* you are right Chicks does equal dude. The \*\*chicks \*\* are going out for girls night and the \*\*dudes \*\* are staying home to video game. And the girl tots are chicklets or chickadees and the boys are lil’ dudes or mini-dudes. At least in the world of sj2 that is. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/46 "2005-05-07T19:25:44Z")
Maybe I come across as more strident about this than I really am. If an adult female wishes to call herself (and others) a girl, ok. I won’t have a hissy-fit. But I don’t expect to hear any serious grousing if I call that same person a woman. If you’re in or beyond your late teens, and female, you’re a woman. Vanity can’t change that. BTW; the restroom signs at my catholic high school read “men” and “girls”. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/47 "2005-05-07T19:30:45Z")
Maybe I come across as more strident about this than I really am. If an adult female wishes to call herself (and others) a girl, ok. I won’t have a hissy-fit. But I don’t expect to hear any serious grousing if I call that same person a woman. If you’re in or beyond your late teens, and female, you’re a woman. Vanity can’t change that. BTW; the restroom signs at my catholic high school read “men” and “girls”. ---
**Author:** ![Flipshod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f19dbf/32.png) [@Flipshod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flipshod)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/48 "2005-05-07T22:05:39Z")
> [@Sarah Woodruff](#): > > … On the odd occasion when I’m referred to as a “young woman”, I automatically think: here comes trouble… 38 male here–Hehe…you’d think “sir” would be good, but if I get called “Sir,” I assume it’s cop, or maybe a bouncer. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/49 "2005-05-07T22:27:04Z")
It’s the old “double-post” thing. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/50 "2005-05-07T23:36:19Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > It’s the old “double-post” thing. **Stark Raven Mad** made me do it. All that talk about nubilism. :o ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/51 "2005-05-07T23:38:04Z")
> [@sj2](#): > > \*\*mangeorge \*\* you are right Chicks does equal dude. > > The \*\*chicks \*\* are going out for girls night and the \*\*dudes \*\* are staying home to video game. > > And the girl tots are chicklets or chickadees and the boys are lil’ dudes or mini-dudes. At least in the world of sj2 that is. I use the terms chick and dude, but I never thought of modifying them for the tots. Cute. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/52 "2005-05-08T00:11:11Z")
> [@chique](#): > > Words like broad, chick, fox, shrew, hag, etc., are a method of dehumanizing women - making them less than a person. I don’t see how broad or hag fit in that group. Aside from the adjective form of “broad,” when are either of those two words ever used to discribe something other than a woman? Complimentary or not, how are they dehumanizing? And would you consider terms like “stud” or “bear,” animal terms that are exclusively used for men, to also be dehumanizing? For that matter, how do you feel about the word “dude?” ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/53 "2005-05-08T01:56:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t see how broad or hag fit in that group. Aside from the adjective form of “broad,” when are either of those two words ever used to discribe something other than a woman? Complimentary or not, how are they dehumanizing? > > And would you consider terms like “stud” or “bear,” animal terms that are exclusively used for men, to also be dehumanizing? > > For that matter, how do you feel about the word “dude?” Bear. I don’t recall ever hearing, except maybe as in “like a big old bear”. I’ve heard “dog” used, mostly as a compliment. That’s dehumanizing, isn’t it? Studs have been largely replaced by artificial insemination, I’m pretty sure. Now _that’s_ insulting at least. Broad, unless I’n wrong, refers to a woman’s hips. Good thing this is IMHO. I have no idea what the hell “dude” is all about, although I’ve always used it a lot. Hag fits because of the context in which it’s used. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/54 "2005-05-08T05:38:45Z")
> [@](#): > > **pasunejen** : It’s not that I’m afraid of aging, or trying to hold onto my childhood. I just cannot conceive of being called a woman at this point in my life, not without laughing in the face of the person who said it. > [@](#): > > **overlyverbose** : For some reason, I don’t like using the term woman to refer to someone. It’s just a personal preference, but it sounds almost…disrespectful, especially if I’m talking about someone who’s my age (which is 29) or older. > [@](#): > > **kimera** : I consider myself a girl or a young lady and I am 23. ‘Woman’ just sounds so old. > [@](#): > > **Monstre** : Seems to me that kimera and many other 20-something women might prefer “girl” or “young woman” simply because the terms feel more youthful and light-hearted to them. What’s wrong with that? I see nothing derogatory in the sense that she’s using it. It’s not that “girl” or “young woman” is derogatory, and certainly anyone is welcome to choose whatever word she is most comfortable with. But it just seems so _sad_ that an adult female feels the need to reject the word which best describes her. These females see something derogatory about “woman.” The Women’s Suffrage Movement wasn’t about getting the vote for _girls_. There was no equal rights movement for _girls_. Being a _WOMAN_ is coming into the fullness of who you are. Can any of you imagine an eighteen year old male who is ashamed of being called a **man**? I mean no personal criticism toward **pasunejen, overlyverbose** and **kimera**. They are just being honest. I just feel that an older generation has failed them in some way. I will add my own preference _not_ to be called a lady. That resupposes certain behaviors that I may not ascribe to – or it may imply that I _should_ ascribe to them since I am a woman. Besides, I always hear Jerry Lewis’s voice when I hear the word. (I do confess to using “the girls” when speaking with my husband or best friend about a certain group of women and I have been known to refer to some of the baudier women I know as “broads” upon occasion. Neither time are these words used as an insult _by me_. Those within the group can get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/55 "2005-05-08T05:49:10Z")
**CateAyo** , welcome to SDMB! That thing about the “Lady Tigers” has driven me crazy since high school. How about “Tigerettes”? :smack: I wonder if they have ever changed the name of the ultimate chess championship in the world. I know that at least it used to something like the “Men’s Grand Master” even when a woman won it. And of course there’s World Cup Soccer and Women’s World Cup Soccer… ---
**Author:** ![pasunejen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58956e/32.png) [@pasunejen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pasunejen)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/56 "2005-05-08T06:29:17Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > It’s not that “girl” or “young woman” is derogatory, and certainly anyone is welcome to choose whatever word she is most comfortable with. But it just seems so _sad_ that an adult female feels the need to reject the word which best describes her. These females see something derogatory about “woman.” I can’t speak for **kimera** or **overlyverbose** , but here’s my take: I never said anything about feeling the word “woman” to be derogatory; it’s just that it doesn’t sit quite right with me _yet_. > [@](#): > > The Women’s Suffrage Movement wasn’t about getting the vote for _girls_. There was no equal rights movement for _girls_. Being a _WOMAN_ is coming into the fullness of who you are. I would consider myself to have pretty well come in to the fullness of who I am, but I’m used to being called a girl and in my experience the marker of womanhood is age rather than any particular sort of maturity. So I don’t feel like I’m quite there yet, and I don’t see it as anything to be either eager for or fearful of. Somewhere along the way most people will drop the stop calling me a “girl” or drop the “young” off “young woman”, and that’s it. It doesn’t mean anything else. Why is this such a problem? Or: there are many individuals in the world who don’t ever really find themselves. Are you honestly going to tell me you call them girls and boys all the way through their life cycle, and that age has nothing to do with it? > [@](#): > > Can any of you imagine an eighteen year old male who is ashamed of being called a **man**? I don’t think anyone said anything about being _ashamed_. I think you’re reading way too much into our posts. > [@](#): > > I mean no personal criticism toward **pasunejen, overlyverbose** and **kimera**. They are just being honest. I just feel that an older generation has failed them in some way. Why should we be so self-conscious and so desirous of outside feedback about our maturity and, of all things, _sense of self_ that we should need to be called women to feel right with the world? Meh. I’m way too tired to articulate all this properly, but I just don’t get the issue, or how I’ve been “failed”. I think I’m doing fine without having to swap out for the latest and greatest descriptor. ---
**Author:** ![pasunejen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58956e/32.png) [@pasunejen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pasunejen)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/57 "2005-05-08T06:37:06Z")
Also, I can think of many males between 17 and 22 who would indeed find it _weird_–though they wouldn’t be _ashamed_–to be referred to as men rather than young men or guys or (depending upon who was speaking) boys. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/58 "2005-05-08T07:12:05Z")
Many Orthodox Jews won’t take unmarried people seriously, which seriously pisses me off. Singles may be accomplished, mature adults, but until they’re married, they’re referred to as boys and girls. This afternoon, an acquaintance referred to ‘a 34-year-old boy’ that someone was trying to set her up with. (She’s in her mid-twenties.) ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/59 "2005-05-08T07:50:03Z")
> [@pasunejen](#): > > I can’t speak for **kimera** or **overlyverbose** , but here’s my take: I never said anything about feeling the word “woman” to be derogatory; it’s just that it doesn’t sit quite right with me _yet_. Yeah, I don’t care if other people call me a woman. That’s just not what I consider myself. And it’s not just some desperate attempt to hold onto my youth, I look forward to the future and to the time when I actually look and feel like a woman! I just naturally look and feel much younger than I actually am and I’m enjoying my youth while it lasts. I know a lot of girls who are younger than me and who try to act like women in their 30s. That’s just not for me, I am in no hurry to get older. I think it’s stupid how we try to rush people past childhood and into adulthood in this day and age. I’m still figuring myself out, I still go out to clubs and dance and drink until 6 am. That’s not something a ‘woman’ does. I think it’s really silly how you think this is setting back or somehow rejecting woman’s right too. The term woman was used because girl only applies to females under the age of 25 or so and the term woman can be used to apply to all females. I asked a bunch of my guy friends my age about this and most of them said that they also thought it was strange to be called ‘man’ most of them considered themselves a ‘guy.’ ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613/60 "2005-05-08T19:54:00Z")
> [@pasunejen](#): > > Also, I can think of many males between 17 and 22 who would indeed find it _weird_–though they wouldn’t be _ashamed_–to be referred to as men rather than young men or guys or (depending upon who was speaking) boys. I doubt that, **pasunejen**. Everything else you and the rest have said I can consider, but I do doubt your above statement. Especailly the “many” part. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girl-why-not-woman/302613.md?page=4)