# Girlfriend ranting (longer than I had originally thought) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 23, 2002, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282 "2002-09-23T15:48:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/141 "2002-10-03T14:58:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\*What concerns me, though, is that you are willing to lump people into the “lesbian-hating” camp, or the “potential rapist” camp, or the “women-hating swine” camp for daring to disagree with you. \*\* And if this was actually happening, then I’d understand your concern. Since it is not, I don’t. The “lesbian-hating” camp was brought to this thread by someone else; I have accused nobody of being a lesbian hater. The people I put in the “potential rapist” are the individuals who actually use physical violence. I don’t remember who I addressed as “woman-hating” (I believe it was used collectively). Your personal epithets were obviously intended as hyperbolic sarcasm. This is, after all, the Pit. This thread originally pissed me off royally: I saw a story about a guy who attacked a woman for having the temerity to show affection toward his girlfriend, and I saw people supporting his right to do so. There is no legitimate justification for anyone to attack anyone else for showing affection toward another human being, and there is no excuse for attempting to justify such immoral behavior. I stand by those beliefs, and I will consider those who disagree with them to be my inferiors. Don’t like that? Tough. You’re not going to change my mind, and by arguing the point you just dig your own hole deeper and deeper. ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/142 "2002-10-03T15:04:45Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by KellyM_ > There is no legitimate justification for anyone to attack anyone else for showing affection toward another human being, and there is no excuse for attempting to justify such immoral behavior. I stand by those beliefs, and I will consider those who disagree with them to be my inferiors. But what about those who took issue with you jumping to conclusions? I don’t think he should have removed the hand, but I simply don’t see that making him a potential rapist. You’ve repeatedly said inflammatory and, quite frankly, stupid things. When you’re called on it you change the subject or act like nobody understands you. Then you top it off by calling anybody who disagrees with you a women hater. Why, specifically, am I a women hater? Don’t obfuscate or change the subject. Answer that question. You waded in and now you’ve let your ego take over. You are simply unwilling to acknowledge any error. Why am I a women hater for pointing out that you were wrong for using statistics to condemn an individual? ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/143 "2002-10-03T15:09:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > There is no legitimate justification for anyone to attack anyone else for showing affection toward another human being, and there is no excuse for attempting to justify such immoral behavior. I stand by those beliefs, and I will consider those who disagree with them to be my inferiors. Don’t like that? Tough. You’re not going to change my mind, and by arguing the point you just dig your own hole deeper and deeper. So did you study irony in school, or does it just come naturally to you? You have some legitimate points, and I honestly admire your moral convictions; I freely admit I’m not as forgiving as you seem to be (at least, in some areas). But seriously, stop posting to this thread. You’re not helping your cause at all, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/144 "2002-10-03T15:15:02Z")
**Zoff** , yes, I said (deliberately) inflammatory things. I’m supposed to apologize for flaming people in the Pit? What the fuck is up with that? If you don’t like being called a woman hater, don’t do (or say) things that make you look like one. ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/145 "2002-10-03T15:23:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Zoff, yes, I said (deliberately) inflammatory things. I’m supposed to apologize for flaming people in the Pit? What the fuck is up with that? You said stupid things. Then you changed the subject when called on them. I’m calling you on it in the Pit. You have a problem with that? > [@](#): > > If you don’t like being called a woman hater, don’t do (or say) things that make you look like one. For the 100th time: what, specifically, did I say to make me look like a woman hater? And, I realize this might be adding a condition you can’t meet, but I’d like you to point out what I said that would make a rationa person think I’m a woman hater. But if you can only find something that you think makes me a woman hater in KellyM World, then I’ll settle for that. All I’ve said is that you’ve jumped to conclusions and created facts to support that conclusion. How is that woman hating? ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/146 "2002-10-03T15:24:19Z")
> [@](#): > > The people I put in the “potential rapist” are the individuals who actually use physical violence. I disagree. Everyone with the physical ability to overpower anyone else is a potential rapist. Whether any one person is more likely to commit rape based upon past “gateway” behavior or other personality characteristics is impossible to prove and reveals only the biases of the evaluator. There is simply no metric to calculate someone’s probability of committing rape, certainly not based on one relatively trivial incident. So **NPavelka** pulled some lady’s arm off his girlfriend, whose attentions were **unwanted** in the first place. What if he also volunteers in a rape crisis center? What if he helps old ladies cross the street? What if someone close to him has been raped in the past? I imagine these factors would all change any estimation of him as a “potential rapist” considerably. Furthermore, calling his actions “battery” or “assault” seem to have no connection whatsoever with reality, despite your “moral standards.” While state law with respect to assault and battery varies, the concept of “willful and malicious injury” is quite common. I think you would have a difficult case to prove that **NPavelka** caused any willful and malicious injury, aside perhaps from a politically correct emotional fantasy. > [@](#): > > There is no legitimate justification for anyone to attack anyone else for showing affection toward another human being, and there is no excuse for attempting to justify such immoral behavior. Nonsense. There are a myriad of extenuating circumstances in which it is _perfectly_ acceptable to intervene physically. How about to prevent rape? After all, isn’t a date rapist showing affection? Are you suggesting that no one should aid the woman too drunk and too uninhibited to resist someone’s advances? A pretty woman-hating law, don’t you think? I think the burden is on you to prove such a categorical moral law, not the reverse. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/147 "2002-10-03T15:35:04Z")
**Zoff** , since you persist in “calling” me on things I haven’t actually done, I’ve decided to ignore you. **Maeglin** , at least, makes valid points, but I’m not interested in debating them here. I’m unsubscribing from this thread. If you want to discuss it further, start a thread in Great Debates or something. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/148 "2002-10-03T15:44:21Z")
I take it back, **KellyM**. I admire nothing about you. That’s one of the most cowardly refusals to confront points in an argument I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/149 "2002-10-03T17:59:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\ ***Zoff** , since you persist in “calling” me on things I haven’t actually done, I’ve decided to ignore you. **Maeglin** , at least, makes valid points, but I’m not interested in debating them here. I’m unsubscribing from this thread. If you want to discuss it further, start a thread in Great Debates or something. \*\* Yes, but what would be the point of a new thread? She’d just refuse to answer straight, unjustly accuse everyone of calling her a man hating lesbian, then ignore everyone. ---
**Author:** ![NPavelka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/edb3f5/32.png) [@NPavelka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NPavelka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/150 "2002-10-03T18:08:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > If you want to discuss it further, start a thread in Great Debates or something. I can see the thread title now… “Is NPavelka a woman hating Lesbian Rapist, who gets his kicks by beating up women???” :rolleyes: Oh and as for helping little old ladies across the street, well I do stop for them which is more than I can say about most people in this town. 🙂 I do try to hold doors for women, but this has gotten me just as many evil stares as it has “thank you”(s). To quote a cartoon… “ogres are like onions, we have layers” for this ogre one of those layers is a very protective layer. I have a tendancy to be very protective of the things I care about, friends, family, and yes SO’s… so am I good ogre or a bad ogre? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/151 "2002-10-03T18:20:51Z")
You know what else has layers? Parfait. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/152 "2002-10-03T19:20:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*KellyM and TLW you’re both living in some absurd dreamworld if you think there a place on this planet where someone (man or woman) is going to be able to grope and cuddle someone’s SO in front of them and not have a significant probability that that person is going to react in a physically forceful manner. How many men or women do you think are going to sit there and suck it up while someone engages in an “in your face” display of naked territorial aggression like this? \*\* I’m not denying that there is a significant probability of anything. I am denying any claim that said probability offers any justification to a physical altercation between the two parties. You can get angry all you want, you can scream and snort and bluster and threaten, but when you lay hands on another person in this situation, you’ve crossed the line. Period. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > **I think what’s happening is that you’re applying your personal moral standards to a situation, and in this case your personal moral standards are set considerably higher than society’s. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, and it’s commendable in you. But if I were to physically manhandle a male who was having sex with my wife, to the point of causing bruises and some scratches, I seriously doubt that I would be held accountable in a court of law for my actions. (However, I am not a lawyer, and I could be wrong on this point.) In that sense, I have the “right” to do that to the man in question.** You would have **NO** right to do that, perceived or otherwise. And if the man swore out a complaint against you, with your wife as his eyewitness, damn any police body who did not take it seriously. Let’s make it clear, one more time, for the slow amongst us: _**Your anger (no matter how justified, in either reality or your perception) in a situation, in which there is no physical assault or danger of assault against you or your loved one does not in any way, shape or form excuse or condone your conduct when your conduct becomes abusive, combative or assaultive. When you take the first hostile steps, you’re the one on the hook for the hostility and violence that follows. Period.**_ In addition, I would go on record as supporting **KellyM** ’s assertion that any conclusions reached as a result of attempts to justify using violence in response to your own anger in a non-violent situation are fully reasonable. If you state to me, unequivocally, that lashing out violently would be your immediate response to a situation which wouldn’t be changed regardless of your response, I’m going to have to wonder in what other inappropriate situations you’d respond with violence. And that’s your own fault. As I said before, if you don’t want the label, don’t embody the behaviors that go with it. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/153 "2002-10-03T19:51:15Z")
**tlw** , you’ve honestly never heard of a situation where a person was found not guilty of battery or even murder due to temporary insanity? For that matter, how would I (in the hypothetical situation) immediately know that my wife was consenting to the situation? Unless she’s shouting out “Yes, yes” or something similar, it’s possible she’s being attacked. Should I not move to protect her in that situation? Finally, if you find any of **KellyM** ’s assertions “fully reasonable,” you need to have your head examined. ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/154 "2002-10-03T21:09:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\ ***galt** , you’re the one who needs therapy, if you are in fact assuming that everything I say is necessarily directed at you. \*\* Sorry, but your comments (regarding people disagreeing with you because you’re a lesbian) didn’t seem to apply to **anyone** here. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/155 "2002-10-03T22:52:45Z")
> [@](#): > > The “chaos has ensued” comment was mainly out of frustration with being asked to justify comments I never made. Well, the quotes have been drawn out pretty clearly, you still wanna hide behind this? > [@](#): > > And I’m not really interested in arguing with people who seem to think that just because I’m a lesbian, I necessarily hate all men. And if that’s the case, then I’ll stand next to you and argue against them. But it’s not. Few knew that you’re a lesbian, and, being the SDMB, few care now. We think you hate all men because you’ve spent the entire thread up throwing around very fucking serious accusations and any and all men that dare enter. **KellyM** , I’m a forgiving person, I realize that people fuck up and say stupid things on this board, they were drunk, they were upset, whatever. I’m willing to let it go and move on in the worst of circumstances. But you have been nothing but a raging bitch in this thread. You actively libel the males in this thread, accusing them of being rapists (oh, woops, excuse me, they are very likely, show all the signs, and have the agenda… but you’re not _calling_ them rapists) with the very thinnest of evidence, at best. I’d suppose I should drag out the quotes in which you do this yet again, but given the fact that you’re sticking your fingers in your ears and going “La la la,” I think I’ll give the spare the server. You seems to enjoy stating publicly that a man is likely to rape a woman. How far are you going to go with this? Are you soon going to claim that a man actually had raped a woman, just to teach him a a lesson? And, correct me if I’m wrong, folks, but would any of you feel safe with **KellyM** anywhere near you? You may be scared of us, KellyM, but I know if I were in the same town as you I’d be pretty fucking scared of you. ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2002, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/156 "2002-10-03T23:58:04Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by KellyM_ > Zoff, since you persist in “calling” me on things I haven’t actually done, I’ve decided to ignore you. In other words, you couldn’t find any comments I made that were “anti-woman” but you don’t have the integrity to admit you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/157 "2002-10-04T01:32:55Z")
OK, I only managed to make it through the first page of this. Still, I feel confident in doling this out. Here’s a hearty “Fuck You” to the following people: **Homebrew** **tlw** **alice\_in\_wonderland** **Medea’s Child** (as if I could take anyone seriously on a dating issue who took their name from literature’s greatest psycho bitch) **KellyM** **ultress** Thanks for adding your holier than thou bullshit comments to a thread chronicling my good friend’s now-deteriorated relationship. Why would you do this? Was it misguided feminism? Was it the urgent need to make absolutely irrelevant comments about sexual orientation? Was it the need to live out some past experience from your own pathetic lives? Probably a little from each, if I don’t miss my mark. Fuck you all, in the ear, with a machette-dildo. Keep your sanctimonius bullshit away from my friend and the problems he might have. The Pit is here to let off some steam, and clearly he had good reason to do just that. It is not here for you to parade your bullshit self-appointed enlightenment about relationships in front of the SDMB in a vainglorious attempt to sound important. Shut the ever-loving fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/158 "2002-10-04T02:20:02Z")
I’ve debated for the last couple of days on whether to post this, because I’m afraid it may be misconstrued. Please understand that I honestly mean only the best in this. **KellyM** , I remember you were recently searching for a psychiatrist, so you could complete the steps you need for your surgery. If you found someone, would you consider printing this thread out and giving it to him/her to read? I think you have some issues with men that need to be addressed. I know that I don’t really know you, and I could be completely off-base, and I’m certainly not a psychiatrist, so take my suggestion as just the opinion of a fellow board member who has followed this mess of a thread from page one. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/159 "2002-10-04T03:30:03Z")
Hey **RexDart** - you’re about 2 pages too late. Excuse me now please - I have to go self pleasure my ear with this dildo shaped machette… \<_ooooo ooooo yah ooooo_\> ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282/160 "2002-10-04T06:14:24Z")
Since I know KellyM is still reading this (anyone who is that full of themselves couldn’t possibly stay away) I just have to say, you are the first poster on this board that has actually made me get up and pace in frustration. You make me embarrassed to be a female. And for the love of god, REMOVING SOMEONES ARM IS NOT ASSULT. I hope I never accidently bump into you in a line or something or else I may be facing a lawsuit huh? Take DeadlyAccurate’s advice and take this post to a shrink. You have some insanely bad man issues with men. I’m sorry about whatever horrible experience you must’ve had that has made you this delsional. Oh, and I wouldn’t suggest going to Great Debates, I think you actually have to SUPPORT your arguments there. Not just ignore everyone who challenges you… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girlfriend-ranting-longer-than-i-had-originally-thought/129282.md?page=9)