# Girls that lie about their age to get sex **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 6, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918 "2014-11-06T19:41:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/161 "2014-11-22T22:43:07Z")
When I read topics like this, two things always come to mind: 1. “Cherry Hill Park”, an amusing little ditty by Billy Joe Royal, about a young girl who bangs ‘all the boys’ ‘till way after dark’. The town pump, age uncertain, perhaps 16? - brings to mind a severely sexually abused young girl acting out. Oh, maybe she is 16 and has that healthy, ravenous sexual appetite all the boys dream of a girl possessing. Maybe she’s so gotta have it she tells her parents she’s going to the library or to babysit, and instead is open for business in the park. Way after dark. This song bugs me no end. It sounds sick and wrong, I’m sorry. (oh, and she finally leaves with ‘a man with money’ to embark on a profession career, IMO.) 2. The scene in Animal House with one of the guys and the girl who do the deed near the end of the movie in a football field and she casually tells him, “I’m 13” and he has the grace to blanch in dismay. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/162 "2014-11-25T16:51:55Z")
> [@EdwinAmi](#): > > It’s weird because it acts like strict liability, but technically is other legal theories. > It’s a mix of A) negligence on the part of the perpetrator, that is, it doesn’t matter if he didn’t know she was underage, he SHOULD have known, and perhaps SHOULD have been careful to check… As mentioned by other posters, we get this idea. So, what specifically, in terms of practical steps, can one do to “check” a lady’s age? Use a private investigator? Take her fingerprints and send them away for a background check? Can I take her to a police station and get an age and competency background check done on her right there and get a signed form from a cop that says “verified over age of consent \<3”? So suppose I’m in the situation described in the OP, and I want to do what is right and check her age. I know that doing underage girls can be seriously harmful to them and I want to make sure I don’t cause such harm. I honestly want to protect children and honor the law but not be a Paranoid Paddy. Give me the procedure for doing such a “careful” check. I want specific actions, lookups, numbers to call, documents to mail away for, etc. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/163 "2014-11-25T16:59:16Z")
> [@Shooby](#): > > …of course real rape should be charged, but if not, then the bounds of statutory rape should end there… Wow, there are a lot of kinds of rape nowadays. Real, statutory, legitimate, violent, predatory, coercive, war, and just ordinary “rape”. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/164 "2014-11-25T17:13:29Z")
Fascinating article to read on this topic and on the elements of rape offenses in general: > **[Home - Northwestern University Law Review](https://northwesternlawreview.org/)** > > Northwestern University Law Review ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/165 "2014-11-25T18:31:59Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Fascinating article to read on this topic and on the elements of rape offenses in general: > > [Home - Northwestern University Law Review](https://www.law.northwestern.edu/lawreview/v101/n1/75/LR101n1Christopher.pdf) The author writes two things that seem contradictory to me : > [@](#): > > Adult impersonation constituting rape > by fraud also may lay the foundation for a new defense to the strict liability offense of statutory rape. and : > [@](#): > > But lack of consent, […], is not > a bar to criminal liability for rape. A rape perpetrator’s lack of consent is > not a defense If the lack of consent of the rapist isn’t a defense, how could stating that he was raped by fraud be a defense? It seems to me that this concept of “adult impersonation constituting rape by fraud” only results in having the two partners being guilty of rape (in the same way a minor can be guilty of the statutory rape of another minor, despite him too being underage and legally unable to consent). IOW, I’m not exactly sure how it would improve the situation. Let’s assume consensual sex between a 20 yo and a 15 yo credibly lying about her age, the parents of the minor bring charges of statutory rape against the adult, the adult counterattacks with bringing charges of rape by fraud against the minor, and both end up in jail and as sex offenders ? It still seems to me that that abolishing strict liability would be a much better and much simpler way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/166 "2014-11-25T18:43:39Z")
In common law jurisdictions, age is not normally a ground on which rape by fraud can rest. It’s generally limited to identity (pretending to be the victim’s husband, for example) or some sort of official capacity (say, pretending to be a gynecologist.) ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/167 "2014-11-25T18:53:33Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > … > If the lack of consent of the rapist isn’t a defense, how could stating that he was raped by fraud be a defense? > > It seems to me that this concept of “adult impersonation constituting rape by fraud” only results in having the two partners being guilty of rape (in the same way a minor can be guilty of the statutory rape of another minor, despite him too being underage and legally unable to consent). > … > It still seems to me that that abolishing strict liability would be a much better and much simpler way to go. And there was a case in the news a while back about an underage girl who was arrested for taking naughty pictures of herself. The reason that child pornography is illegal is because it constitutes a form of sexual abuse. So this girl, who was legally incapable of understanding the nature of sexual activity to the extent allowing her to meaningfully make her own decisions about sexual behavior is potentially facing charges for a sexual abuse charge (production of child pornography) that _requires_ intent. So you can be competent enough to abuse yourself and be sent to jail and labeled as a sex offender for life for doing so, but incompetent to be abused by yourself such that you didn’t _really_ understand what you were doing to yourself and thus couldn’t really consent? Where can I get some of what the prosecutor was smoking? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/168 "2014-11-25T18:54:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In common law jurisdictions, age is not normally a ground on which rape by fraud can rest. It’s generally limited to identity (pretending to be the victim’s husband, for example) or some sort of official capacity (say, pretending to be a gynecologist.) What if it was a common law gynecologist? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/169 "2014-11-25T20:39:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In common law jurisdictions, age is not normally a ground on which rape by fraud can rest. It’s generally limited to identity (pretending to be the victim’s husband, for example) or some sort of official capacity (say, pretending to be a gynecologist.) Yes, but the guy argues that it would be a valid ground, amongst many other things by comparing it to the reasonning used in the situations you describe. I still think that even if he’s right, it would only compound the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/170 "2014-11-26T06:46:44Z")
> [@EdwinAmi](#): > > Feh. Liberals (not implying that you’re one) always point to weird minor statistics that have small differences among them as proof of this kind of stuff. I don’t find it very compelling > > In the blue states, ms teen preggo would just be disowned by her parents if they’re foreigners (because in Old World cultures, nothing is worse than even a single failure), and then her friends would encourage her to have an abortion or have the baby and never marry so the kid grows up without a father (because god forbid you ever be slightly dependent on someone else). Her friends and family (if they didn’t disown her) would say that a man would only drag her down from her dreams. But her dreams would be as vague as they are stupid, with a stupid “career” that involves one of the leach-on-society industries as opposed to real production, the “freedom” to party like a bimbo, and generally never make an actual interpersonal commitment. > > In the red states, she’d be pressured to marry to give that kid a damned father. She wouldn’t massively raise her chances of cervical cancer later in life with an abortion, and she’d be giving up vague and ultimately meaningless “freedoms” to give the kid the best chance (fathers massively increase metrics of success statistically), and in the process she might learn that life isn’t all about you and sometimes working toward something and having real community ties might make you happy. > > Encouraging the least health-damaging life paths and traditions which are actually born out of biology and actually lead to the greatest happiness and the most productivity for society is blasphemy in the blue states. > A lot of this comes from life experience. Eh, mostly I’m just sick of the cultural memes I get bombarded with up here, especially by my retarded family. Last time I checked, abortion doesn’t cause cancer. That’s been thoroughly debunked by the medical community and only a few pro-life zealots claim it does. And second, a teenager should not be getting married, pregnant or not. A fourteen-year-old wouldn’t be permitted to get married, in fact. Your scenario is utterly insane. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/171 "2014-11-26T14:58:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > A fourteen-year-old wouldn’t be permitted to get married, in fact. > > Your scenario is utterly insane. Unfortunately, that is not completely correct. In Texas and a few other states with permission of a parent or guardian a fourteen-year old may legally get married. It’s a law that might have made sense in the state’s distant rural, agricultural past, but it is still on the books and occasionally used. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/172 "2014-11-26T20:15:34Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Unfortunately, that is not completely correct. In Texas and a few other states with permission of a parent or guardian a fourteen-year old may legally get married. It’s a law that might have made sense in the state’s distant rural, agricultural past, but it is still on the books and occasionally used. You’re wrong about Texas: [http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/marriagedivorce/mdfaq.shtm](http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/marriagedivorce/mdfaq.shtm) > [@](#): > > What If I Am Under The Age Of 18, Can I Still Get Married? > > If you are 16-17 years of age, you can only marry if one of the following criteria is met: > > ``` > [ul] > > ``` > > [li]You have parental consent. Parental Consent must be evidenced by a written declaration on a form provided by the County Clerk. A county clerk may accept the form of another Texas County Clerk or from an official authorized to issue marriage licenses in another state. (Contact County Clerk for more details) [Family Code § 2.102][/li][li] You have been previously legally married, and the applicant provides a certified copy of the divorce decree. [Family Code § 2.101][/li][li] You obtain an order from the Texas district court where the parent resides. [Family Code § 2.103][/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/173 "2014-11-26T21:50:48Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > You’re wrong about Texas: [http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/marriagedivorce/mdfaq.shtm](http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/marriagedivorce/mdfaq.shtm) That’s a recent change for good for then. ---
**Author:** ![EdwinAmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5fc32e/32.png) [@EdwinAmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwinAmi)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/174 "2014-11-27T05:07:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Last time I checked, abortion doesn’t cause cancer. That’s been thoroughly debunked by the medical community and only a few pro-life zealots claim it does Wow, it’s a good thing that nobody said that then. It increases the RATE of cancer. It’s a risk factor. For cervical cancer, specifically. They (whoever sued) even won a case against planned parenthood. > [@](#): > > Your scenario is utterly insane. I never said 14 year old. Don’t add in things just because you don’t like what I said. I meant more generally anybody inadvertently pregnant. In my experience blue state people preach an extreme tolerance and liberalism (in the literal sense), but actually practice extreme othering and judgementalism, and value the self as opposed to community, and take conservative (in the literal sense) life-planning values to the extreme, that is endless education before work, unacceptance of physical work, you know, the eloi syndrome. There’s more to it than that But like I said, that has been my experience That’s what I was trying to say I can’t even remember what that whole point was for, I know I was using it for something else I was saying above. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2014, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/175 "2014-11-27T07:04:15Z")
> [@EdwinAmi](#): > > Wow, it’s a good thing that nobody said that then. > It increases the RATE of cancer. It’s a risk factor. For cervical cancer, specifically. They (whoever sued) even won a case against planned parenthood. No, no it doesn’t increase the rate, either. Do you have a cite for this alleged case? :dubious: Because I’m flat out calling it bullshit. And you still talked about a teen pregnancy, and said that one should get married. Saying that the solution to a teen pregnancy is marriage is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![EdwinAmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5fc32e/32.png) [@EdwinAmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwinAmi)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/176 "2014-12-01T06:23:09Z")
> [@](#): > > and said that one should get married. Saying that the solution to a teen pregnancy is marriage is ridiculous. No I didn’t. I was talking about pregnancy generally, I don’t thinkI even said teen pregnancy. And from what I’ve read, they actually won a court case on the cervical cancer thing, which is good enough for me. That’s not to say that courts are always right about that stuff, but they’re not always wrong either, and a court case generally implies there’s some evidence. The case may have been appealed and then remanded, I don’t know. But logic would also dictate that creating huge changes in the crazy engine that is a woman’s reproductive organ, and especially inducing hormonal changes, wouldn’t be too healthy. The point was it’s just a microcosm of our culture’s extreme views on putting health below vague metrics of “success”. Look, just stop. It was a side point. You’re putting words in my mouth, but the whole thing was a side point in the first place. Why are you jagaloons pressing on one stupid ancillary point? Just stop. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2014, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/177 "2014-12-01T08:20:03Z")
Because you made a bullshit claim – there is no known evidence that abortion causes or raises the risks of cancer – and then when called on it, refused to provide any data or proof of it. BTW, I did a google search with the words “cervical cancer planned parenthood” and the ONLY articles that came up where about SCREENINGS for cervical cancer, and the HPV vaccine. Planned Parenthood doesn’t just perform abortions – they also provide women’s healthcare, such as pap smears, pelvic exams, etc. It said jackshit about any lawsuits. And yes, you said TEEN pregnancy: > [@](#): > > In the blue states, ms teen preggo would just be disowned by her parents if they’re foreigners (because in Old World cultures, nothing is worse than even a single failure), and then her friends would encourage her to have an abortion or have the baby and never marry so the kid grows up without a father (because god forbid you ever be slightly dependent on someone else). Her friends and family (if they didn’t disown her) would say that a man would only drag her down from her dreams. But her dreams would be as vague as they are stupid, with a stupid “career” that involves one of the leach-on-society industries as opposed to real production, the “freedom” to party like a bimbo, and generally never make an actual interpersonal commitment. > > In the red states, she’d be pressured to marry to give that kid a damned father. She wouldn’t massively raise her chances of cervical cancer later in life with an abortion, and she’d be giving up vague and ultimately meaningless “freedoms” to give the kid the best chance (fathers massively increase metrics of success statistically), and in the process she might learn that life isn’t all about you and sometimes working toward something and having real community ties might make you happy. So if “ms teen preggo” doesn’t refer to teen pregnancy, what DOES it refer to? And don’t make it an argument, and then whine when people question it. Calling it a “side point” doesn’t cut it. ---
**Author:** ![EdwinAmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5fc32e/32.png) [@EdwinAmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwinAmi)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/178 "2014-12-02T00:32:32Z")
it was a side point whoop dee do so I did say teen. I didn’t ultimately mean to narrow it down so much. and it was a side point. It’s almost OT to the OP. Why don’t you just drop it and stop hounding one little point? ---
**Author:** ![EdwinAmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5fc32e/32.png) [@EdwinAmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwinAmi)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918/179 "2014-12-02T00:36:01Z")
FYI, I just looked upthread. YOU jagaloons started focusing on teen pregnancy and marriage and shit when I was just trying to make a broader cultural point about raising kids, and tried to mis-interpret what I said/put words in my mouth again, why don’t you guys come off it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/girls-that-lie-about-their-age-to-get-sex/703918.md?page=8)