# "Gitmo is Killing Me" -- Obama's Guantánamo **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780 "2013-04-15T18:54:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/121 "2013-05-04T21:38:00Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > In the real world, Gitmo is an evil place. What we are doing at Gitmo is evil. Awesome Username/Post combo. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/122 "2013-05-04T21:43:33Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Calling it Obama’s Gitmo is wrong and a lie. Obama just inherited it along with all the other clusterfucks the Republicans under Dubya created. Don’t worry, it’ll be Hillary’s Gitmo soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/123 "2013-05-04T21:45:46Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > They are being detained as combatants w/o charge under the laws of war/LOAC/IHL. Once there is an end to hostilities, they can no longer be held under the laws of war and are not combatants. Except that the “War on Terror” isn’t a real war and can’t end. And they were specifically named by the made up term “unlawful combatants” to put them in a legal void where they have no legal rights or definition at all. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/124 "2013-05-04T22:02:11Z")
It is a real war because we are really fighting it. The President can unilaterally end wars. Lawful or unlawful (which was all decided long ago btw) they are still combatants. The NDAA predicates their detention on the laws of war. Those only apply during a war. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/125 "2013-05-04T22:45:32Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > . . . The President can unilaterally end wars. . . . Tricky. Congress has the power to declare war. They also have a lot of power over how the military is used. The President might simply order the troops to stop fighting, and this would have the effect you describe, but it wouldn’t “end the war” if Congress didn’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/126 "2013-05-04T23:03:41Z")
How would declaring an end to hostilities and not fighting the enemy not end the war? Congress didn’t declare war, just authorized the President to use force, if needed. He decides that. I do agree the effect this would have on the detainees would be obviously a bit more complicated than I’m making it. The power to detain though would certainly start to crumble. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/127 "2013-05-23T10:11:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It appears to me that the assertion of the ACLU that force-feeding is universally regarded as torture is mistaken: > [Cite](http://www.guardian.co.uk/yugo/article/0,,1966016,00.html). [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force-feeding#cite_note-13). > Even the best run prisons have suicide rates higher than the norm for outside prison. And I have seen no indications that any Qur’ans have been desecrated. > [Cite](http://dawn.com/2013/03/12/hunger-strike-at-guantanamo-after-quran-searches/). > > I see nothing brutal or inhumane about searching a prisoner’s cell for contraband. I understand that the prisoners don’t want to be held, but the conditions under which they are being held do not appear to be either brutal or inhumane, and the allegation of the OP that “Gitmo is killing me” appears to be a wild exaggeration. > > Regards, > Shodan Any medical personnel with evidence of serving at Guantanamo would find it difficult to register to practice in Europe. Several have already been denied registration because of participation in assessing detainees as fit for further torture! ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/128 "2013-05-23T10:13:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In San Jose a noted Vietnamese activist went on a hunger strike so that the city would name a area “Little Saigon”. I suppose you could call this " an abuse", but if so it’s pretty damn minor. > > So, indeed dudes go on hunger strikes for petty reasons. > > Would you have us let them starve? Why not? Force feeding is merely a way in which the State removes the right of free speech and action from prisoners for its own interests. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/129 "2013-05-23T12:44:59Z")
Yeah I highly doubt your average American doctor would want to take a substantial cut in pay and probably an increase in cost of living to practice in Europe. That being said, just like the death penalty through lethal injection which is a semi-medical procedure, force feeding in the United States is not usually done by doctors because the AMA has rules against it. But there is no legal prohibition on prison orderlies (who are not medical professionals but just hourly wage workers, or just enlisted men in a military context) force feeding. It doesn’t take a medical degree or any degree at all to put a feeding tube in someone. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/130 "2013-05-23T13:29:19Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Don’t worry, it’ll be Hillary’s Gitmo soon enough. Nope, it will always and forever belong to George W. Bush, the war criminal President who created it. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/131 "2013-05-23T15:05:01Z")
President Obama will be giving a speech today re: Guantanamo and his plans to close it (this time for real). If he mentions lifting the self-imposed ban on Yemen and working with Yemen to send the Yemeni detainees there, that’s actual progress. ---
**Author:** ![TheSeaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ed655f/32.png) [@TheSeaOtter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheSeaOtter)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/132 "2013-05-23T19:44:54Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > President Obama will be giving a speech today re: Guantanamo and his plans to close it (this time for real). If he mentions lifting the self-imposed ban on Yemen and working with Yemen to send the Yemeni detainees there, that’s actual progress. [QUOTE=President Obama] Today, I once again call on Congress to lift the restrictions on detainee transfers from GTMO. I have asked the Department of Defense to designate a site in the United States where we can hold military commissions. I am appointing a new, senior envoy at the State Department and Defense Department whose sole responsibility will be to achieve the transfer of detainees to third countries. I am lifting the moratorium on detainee transfers to Yemen, so we can review them on a case by case basis. To the greatest extent possible, we will transfer detainees who have been cleared to go to other countries. [/QUOTE] [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/24/us/politics/transcript-of-obamas-speech-on-drone-policy.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/24/us/politics/transcript-of-obamas-speech-on-drone-policy.html) Hooray for progress? ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/133 "2013-05-23T19:45:04Z")
Looks like we have actual progress then. He stated that he is revoking his executive order that prevented release of prisoners to third countries, and is going to push hard on Congress to remove the restrictions on relocating remaining prisoners to the US. I agree with his comments on supermax prisons. They seem to work well for everyone else held in them, but somehow Gitmo detainees are different? The only reasons for not doing so are political, not logistical. It appears that the editorial may have actually kept Obama up a few nights, from the sound of his words and the arguments he made. This speech was overdue. I remain fully skeptical of the administration for the time being. I seriously disagree with his drone strike policies and the weak justification given for their use, though he did scale back that today also. I am happy to see him promoting a media shield law, but would be even more happy if he fired a few lawyers (possibly including the AG) for overreach. Prove that this is not what his administration believes. Too many policies of too many administrations have been “We had to kill democracy in order to save it.” ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/134 "2013-05-23T19:57:19Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Yeah I highly doubt your average American doctor would want to take a substantial cut in pay and probably an increase in cost of living to practice in Europe. That being said, just like the death penalty through lethal injection which is a semi-medical procedure, force feeding in the United States is not usually done by doctors because the AMA has rules against it. > > But there is no legal prohibition on prison orderlies (who are not medical professionals but just hourly wage workers, or just enlisted men in a military context) force feeding. It doesn’t take a medical degree or any degree at all to put a feeding tube in someone. It is a matter of complicity. Two US doctors have had their registrations withdrawn or refused because of complicity in torture with US forces. Force feeding is usually prescribed medically and overseen by medics- that would quite possibly make them ineligible to practice in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/135 "2013-05-23T20:07:34Z")
> [@TheSeaOtter](#): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/24/us/politics/transcript-of-obamas-speech-on-drone-policy.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/24/us/politics/transcript-of-obamas-speech-on-drone-policy.html) > > Hooray for progress? I haven’t read or heard the speech, but I’ll comment on what you posted from the President. > [@](#): > > _Today, I once again call on Congress to lift the restrictions on detainee transfers from GTMO_. “Once again.” Regardless, this has always been a hurdle, and never a wall (assuming he’s talking about transfer to other countries - not the US). > [@](#): > > _I have asked the Department of Defense to designate a site in the United States where we can hold military commissions_. There are already on going trials in Guantanamo. This makes no difference to me. > [@](#): > > _I am appointing a new, senior envoy at the State Department and Defense Department whose sole responsibility will be to achieve the transfer of detainees to third countries_. This good news. However, we’ve had this type of position before in Bush and Obama’s administration and he was doing well with transfers. Then he left and was never replaced by Obama. So this brings us back to where we were. But this is good and needed. > [@](#): > > _I am lifting the moratorium on detainee transfers to Yemen, so we can review them on a case by case basis_. Good news. Up to Obama and senior envoy to get it done to get the Yemens cleared for release back to Yemen. > [@](#): > > _To the greatest extent possible, we will transfer detainees who have been cleared to go to other countries_. i.e., we reserve the right to not get it done. If senior envoy has some power (or influence) and Obama does lift the ban on transfers to Yemen, then this has been a good day. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/136 "2013-05-23T20:59:54Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > It is a matter of complicity. Two US doctors have had their registrations withdrawn or refused because of complicity in torture with US forces. Force feeding is usually prescribed medically and overseen by medics- that would quite possibly make them ineligible to practice in the UK. Force feeding is not torture, but it is against AMA guidelines so it typically is not done by American doctors. Some military doctors may participate, though, it’s their individual choice to do so. The AMA doesn’t control physician licensing in the United States. I’d be interested in a cite for the two U.S. doctors who have had “their registrations withdrawn” as I find it puzzling that any U.S. doctor would be trying to practice in the United Kingdom in the first place. There are very little incentives to make that kind of move. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/137 "2013-05-23T21:06:42Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Force feeding is not torture, but it is against AMA guidelines so it typically is not done by American doctors. Some military doctors may participate, though, it’s their individual choice to do so. The AMA doesn’t control physician licensing in the United States. > > I’d be interested in a cite for the two U.S. doctors who have had “their registrations withdrawn” as I find it puzzling that any U.S. doctor would be trying to practice in the United Kingdom in the first place. There are very little incentives to make that kind of move. We have many US doctors registered here- often researching which is a major industry here. The two doctors mentioned applied to be admitted to the register- one after being given a temporary registration. They both failed to meet the morality and behaviour requirements. One British doctor has been removed from the regis ter despite having qualified in the UK for complicity in torture. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/138 "2013-05-23T22:23:27Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Nope, it will always and forever belong to George W. Bush, the war criminal President who created it. Doesn’t work that way, no. Presidents are caretakers, they don’t own something in perpetuity. Bush started it but Obama has perpetuated it. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/139 "2013-05-23T22:24:41Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > We have many US doctors registered here- often researching which is a major industry here. The two doctors mentioned applied to be admitted to the register- one after being given a temporary registration. They both failed to meet the morality and behaviour requirements. One British doctor has been removed from the regis ter despite having qualified in the UK for complicity in torture. Cite please. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Made_French_Toast_For_You)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780/140 "2013-05-24T02:28:17Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > President Obama will be giving a speech today re: Guantanamo and his plans to close it (this time for real). If he mentions lifting the self-imposed ban on Yemen and working with Yemen to send the Yemeni detainees there, that’s actual progress. I’m not sure today’s remarks constitute “actual progress.” If I’m not mistaken, everything President Obama mentioned today (including lifting the Yemen moratorium, appointing an envoy, re-reviewing all the cases, planning for military commissions, calling on Congress to act, etc.) will only bring us back to where we started at the beginning of his presidency. Relative to today, it’s progress, and I’m happy for that. But relative to 2009, nothing much has changed. But hell, it’s forward momentum, so maybe I shouldn’t be so negative. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-is-killing-me-obamas-guantanamo/655780.md?page=8)