# Gitmo suicides were really acts of warfare **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 11, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301 "2006-06-11T15:06:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/41 "2006-06-12T09:54:23Z")
[QUOTE=Metacom] …working for a nation that pledged liberty and justice for all… [/QUOTE] You missed the memo. Bush administration revisio… err… researchers have discovered that there was a typo. The words “for Americans” were accidentally left off the end. Did you hear about those stop at nothing Iraqi bastards that were shot by some US soldiers at Haditha the other day? They _deliberately and provacatively_ screamed and gasped as they were shot, and then \*just to be complete assholes \* and for no other reason but to hurt US interests, fell to the ground in gruesome poses so that people would feel sorry for them. Are there no depths to which those terrorists will not sink? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/42 "2006-06-12T13:18:55Z")
[QUOTE=spooje] Suicide is an act of warfare. (useless space deleted) Nope, it’s stupid any way you look at it. How about “Suicide is a political statement”? I, for one, find it much more likely that they were not thrilled at the prospect of a lifetime of confinement as a ‘detainee’. [/QUOTE] I think history proves this wrong - amoung other methods, many hunger strikes have been done for politicl reasons, which is a slow form of sucide, and was tryed by the detainees in Gitmo before - the result was (painful) forced feeding. So the slow way to kill one self to make a statement was not available to them - so they had to do the quick way. I’m not saying that the prisoners were thrilled at their situation, but it seems far more likely to be a political statment. [QUOTE=Squink] Calling the suicides a “good PR move to draw attention” is a bad PR move that will attract attention. [/QUOTE] & [QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] On the other hand, do they just give any fool a flag in the navy nowadays? What (if anything) was the man thinking? Didn’t he have a prepared plan including a press statement? Why the heck not? [/QUOTE] Calling it anything else woudl be a lie, are you suggesting that the commander lie to the American public? [QUOTE=Tuckerfan] The BBC is reporting that one of the suicides was going to be released. [/QUOTE] Counter information, transfer to another country does not necessarily mean release, and one seems like a real bastard (the Al-Q guy). I can’t fault a POW (or detainee) for killing a prison guard in a attempt to escape > [@](#): > > One of the Guantanamo detainees who committed suicide had been cleared for transfer to another country, a second allegedly was involved in an Afghanistan prison uprising in which a CIA agent died, and a third had ties to al-Qaida. From [http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GUANTANAMO\_SUICIDES?SITE=WABCAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GUANTANAMO_SUICIDES?SITE=WABCAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/43 "2006-06-12T13:59:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Calling it anything else woudl be a lie Really? You know that for a fact? Fucking CITE? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/44 "2006-06-12T14:21:02Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] “Assymentrical”? WTF??? Of course it’s assymetrical, dumbass, these guys are being held in prison! [/QUOTE] Thank you, **John**. You took the words right out of my mouth. I’m sure they’d have been delighted to engage in a more symmetrical response, but it’s not like Admiral Harris was going to ask any of them if they’d like to step outside and have it out with fisticuffs, one on one. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/45 "2006-06-12T15:19:53Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] I wonder about the next president. [/QUOTE] Optimist. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/46 "2006-06-12T15:27:37Z")
[QUOTE=DtC] Really? You know that for a fact? Fucking CITE? [/QUOTE] The OP of the thread is a Fucken CITE, can you find a Fucken CITE to prove otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/47 "2006-06-12T16:23:43Z")
[QUOTE=davenportavenger] Optimist. [/QUOTE] Eh, assuming the next president is a Democrat, which seems less than unlikely, he’s going to spend some time, even for purely political reasons, putting the house in order. Truthfully, this isn’t the biggest fuckup of the administration. (Most purely evil, yes) No, neither is the Iraq war. The half… quarter-assed restructuring of the governmental bureaucracy to make the Office of Homeland Security has such far-reaching and messed up results that the more I investigate it, the worse it looks. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/48 "2006-06-12T16:44:59Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] The OP of the thread is a Fucken CITE, can you find a Fucken CITE to prove otherwise? [/QUOTE] It’s your assertion, you prove it. The link in the OP proves dick. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/49 "2006-06-12T16:55:36Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] The OP of the thread is a Fucken CITE, can you find a Fucken CITE to prove otherwise? [/QUOTE] So you’re saying _reality_ is the fucking moron? The “act of war” judgment is an opinion. Shit, even Joseph Heller wouldn’t have thought up this joke. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/50 "2006-06-12T17:54:41Z")
[QUOTE=Mighty\_Girl] Did anyone else think of Life of Brian’s Suicide Squad upon reading the OP? Nobody? Sorry… If I were to be separated for life from family, friends, culture and held like cattle by not-exactly-the-most-humane guards, and with more than a fair chance that I did nothing to deserve that, I would not hesitate to off myself. If they think less of me, well, then they can chase me and try to punish me again. [/QUOTE] Foxtrot that! If in that situation, I’d stick around, hoping for eventual release, so that I could extract vengeance upon my former oppressors. I am not kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/51 "2006-06-12T17:55:49Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] Counter information, transfer to another country does not necessarily mean release, and one seems like a real bastard (the Al-Q guy). I can’t fault a POW (or detainee) for killing a prison guard in a attempt to escape [/QUOTE] No, transfer doesn’t necessarily mean release, though his lawyer seemed to think so. He could have always been sent to a country where he’d be treated _worse_. And if there’s evidence that the one prisoner killed a prison guard, why wasn’t he charged with anything? Unless, of course, his being there and the death of the guard are purely a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/52 "2006-06-12T18:03:34Z")
So, I saw one of the Sunday talk shows with retired Gen. McCaffrey (sp?) on it-- had to be one of the xxNBC channels, because he’s their guy. He must’ve had the same educational training as the guy in the quote, since he claimed this was no different than what suicide bombers do in Bagdad. Uhm, no… If the suicide bombers walked out into an empty field and blew themselves up, we’d all cheer. If the hung themselves in their apartments to protest the Great Satan, we’d love it. It may have been a form of protest or it may have been an act of desparation-- or a combination of the two. I don’t see how we can saying anything about their motivations at this point. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/53 "2006-06-12T19:43:50Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] And if there’s evidence that the one prisoner killed a prison guard, why wasn’t he charged with anything? Unless, of course, his being there and the death of the guard are purely a coincidence. [/QUOTE] If the prisoner is/was considered a EWP (POW), his actions would be OK under the Gevona Convention. [QUOTE=DtC] It’s your assertion, you prove it. The link in the OP proves dick. [/QUOTE] You and your unproven liberal conspiracy theories, why in the world would we discredit the Commander of Gitmo’s statement - what proof do YOU have to do so. His statment IS THE FUCKEN CITE and unless you have ANY EVIDENCE to prove that he is lying - If not please go back to your conspiracy buddies. If you do I would be happy to entertain them. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/54 "2006-06-12T19:50:30Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] You and your unproven liberal conspiracy theories, why in the world would we discredit the Commander of Gitmo’s statement - what proof do YOU have to do so. His statment IS THE FUCKEN CITE and unless you have ANY EVIDENCE to prove that he is lying - If not please go back to your conspiracy buddies. If you do I would be happy to entertain them. [/QUOTE] I don’t think you two are arguing the same thing. Could you each state explicitly what you are arguing? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/55 "2006-06-12T19:55:37Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] If the prisoner is/was considered a EWP (POW), his actions would be OK under the Gevona Convention. [/quote] Must have missed that convention. [QUOTE=kanicbird] You and your unproven liberal conspiracy theories, why in the world would we discredit the Commander of Gitmo’s statement - what proof do YOU have to do so. His statment IS THE FUCKEN CITE and unless you have ANY EVIDENCE to prove that he is lying - If not please go back to your conspiracy buddies. If you do I would be happy to entertain them. [/QUOTE] You are a dribbling idiot. The Commander’s statement relies on a knowledge of the intent of the people commiting suicide. If they didn’t tell him why they were doing it, then he has nothing but speculation to guide him. No-one has said that he’s lying. He could well be telling exactly the truth about his own beliefs. What people are questioning is the way in which he interprets and explains these actions, and the way in which he leaves out a whole bunch of possible alternative motivations and reasons for the suicides, and immediately assumes that they are acts of “asymmetrical warfare” designed to gain good PR for the prisoners and their cause. He’s the one making this assertion, so the burden is on him (and idiots like you) to back it up with some evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/56 "2006-06-12T19:58:58Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] And if there’s evidence that the one prisoner killed a prison guard, why wasn’t he charged with anything? Unless, of course, his being there and the death of the guard are purely a coincidence. [/QUOTE] I would imagine that a Gitmo prisoner could defend a prosecution for killing a guard as self-defence, on the grounds that he was wwrongfully imprisoned. They could also argue that they were not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States while in Cuba. So a prosecution might bring up all sorts of issues that the US would not want raised. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/57 "2006-06-12T20:02:13Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] I would imagine that a Gitmo prisoner could defend a prosecution for killing a guard as self-defence, on the grounds that he was wwrongfully imprisoned. They could also argue that they were not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States while in Cuba. So a prosecution might bring up all sorts of issues that the US would not want raised. [/QUOTE] Also, given that the US has decided that it can just keep people imprisoned for as long as it wants to without trial or any other consideration, prosecution would be largely beside the point anyway. Why bother prosecuting when you’re just going to keep the guy in jail forever anyway? And i’m sure the other guards would make sure there was some extra punishment for him. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/58 "2006-06-12T20:04:44Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] conspiracy buddies [/QUOTE] The only conspiracy buddy is the one who made the suicide assertion in the first place. Everyone else is saying “it is unknowable”. Christ you’re stupid. And inhumane too, but perhaps the two things come in the same package. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/59 "2006-06-12T20:33:44Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] You and your unproven liberal conspiracy theories [/quote] “Liberal conspiracy theories?” What the fuck? Since when is asking you to prove your own half-baked assertions a “conspiracy theory?” > [@](#): > > why in the world would we discredit the Commander of Gitmo’s statement - what proof do YOU have to do so. His statment IS THE FUCKEN CITE and unless you have ANY EVIDENCE to prove that he is lying - If not please go back to your conspiracy buddies. If you do I would be happy to entertain them. “Conspiracy buddies?” Christ, you’re a fucking imbecile. You made an assertion that calling the suicides “anything else [but acts of war] would be a lie.” I’m asking you ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301/60 "2006-06-12T20:52:30Z")
Accidentally hit the fucking submit button. You ( **kanicibird** made an assertion that calling the suicides “anything else [but acts of war] would be a lie.” I’m asking you HOW THE FUCK YOU COULD POSSIBLY KNOW THAT? Quoting the Commander of Gitmo does not represent a cite because, guess what, HE CAN’T POSSIBLY KNOW EITHER. Do you think he has psychic powers or something? Calling the suicides an act of war is stupid even if it was done as an attempt to alter public opinion. If non-violent attempts to alter public opinion can be labelled as “acts of war,” then Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi were ruthless warlords. Comparing the suicides in Gitmo to suicide _bombings_ is just right through the fucking looking glass. Statements like that are almost breathtaking in how glibly disingenuous and malicious they are. Calling it Orwellian is not even hyperbolic anymore. If these guys were killing themselves as an effort to make things better for their comrades in the prison, then their sacrifice is heroic. I also want to remind you that the decision to (hilariously) spin these suicides as “acts of war” is based on a completely unproven assumption that anyone in Gitmo is our “enemy.” It has not been shown that any these guys are guilty of a fucking thing. FYI. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-suicides-were-really-acts-of-warfare/360301.md?page=4)