# Gitmo will never be shut down now?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [June 29, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905 "2010-06-29T05:59:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/1 "2010-06-29T05:59:44Z")
That’s what [this New York Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/26/us/politics/26gitmo.html?adxnnl=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1277654522-AnnGMJRMIUcDPqYMQiPelg) seems to be saying, if only by its attitude.
Any thoughts on what’s “really” going on, if indeed it’s not what’s being said here?
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### Author:  [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/2 "2010-06-29T06:01:29Z")
I didn’t read the article, but I would assume that when they finally release the US citizens who are innocent, there’s going to be a shitstorm of lawsuits.
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### Author:  [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/3 "2010-06-29T06:07:24Z")
> [@Leaper](#):
>
> Any thoughts on what’s “really” going on, if indeed it’s not what’s being said here?
What’s “really” going on is Bush isn’t President any more, therefore the bitching about Gitmo has stopped as has the motivation to close it. Duh.:rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/4 "2010-06-29T06:19:52Z")
> [@Superhal](#):
>
> I didn’t read the article, but I would assume that when they finally release the US citizens who are innocent, there’s going to be a shitstorm of lawsuits.
They’ll probably be forced to sign a pledge to not sue or talk about what happened to them before release; or just be shot in the head and dropped into an ocean.
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### Author:  [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/5 "2010-06-29T08:39:37Z")
> [@Superhal](#):
>
> I didn’t read the article, but I would assume that when they finally release the US citizens who are innocent, there’s going to be a shitstorm of lawsuits.
Unless I’m grossly mistaken, nobody at Gitmo is American. They all got due process. It was the random people kidnapped by bounty hunters from outside the States who got thrown in Gitmo and would have lots of reason to sue. Of course, they won’t be able to do so, so that will be the end of that.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/6 "2010-06-29T13:39:18Z")
I can picture it as a latter-day Spandau, kept running, mostly forgotten by the public, until the last prisoner dies.
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### Author:  [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/7 "2010-06-29T13:47:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> They’ll probably be forced to sign a pledge to not sue or talk about what happened to them before release; or just be shot in the head and dropped into an ocean.
Unlikely. The Red Cross has access to the detainees and since the Pentagon has [published a list of all of the names of the detainees](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-04-20-gitmo-detainees_x.htm) there, “disappearing” them is not an option. Besides, if the detainees were released into either their home country or any third country, there is no way the US could enforce any promise from them not to talk to anyone, including the media, about their imprisonment.
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### Author:  [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/8 "2010-06-29T15:42:43Z")
Obama has finally realized that many of the detainees are ruthless killers…25 ones released to Saudi Arabia are now back in Al Queda. So, he has a tiger by the tail. Many of the others cannot be sent back to their home countries-they face immediate execution. Morocco will take theirs back-but they will not guarantee that their returnees won’t be executed.
Welcome to the world, Obama.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/9 "2010-06-29T15:46:46Z")
> [@Superhal](#):
>
> I didn’t read the article, but I would assume that when they finally release the US citizens who are innocent, there’s going to be a shitstorm of lawsuits.
Well, lets calculate the value of a “shitstorm”. I will assume that there are 1,000 lawsuits per US citizen in Gitmo.
1,000 x 0 (the number of US citizens in Gitmo) = 0
Therefore, 1 shitstorm = 0.
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### Author:  [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/10 "2010-06-29T16:32:47Z")
Doesn’t our lease with Cuba run out some time in the 2030s?
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/11 "2010-06-29T16:44:35Z")
Yes, the general reaction to this subject now on the left seems to be a harmony of embarrassed throat-clearing.
But let’s face it: this is not unique to Obama. Every single candidate has the luxury of saying about his incumbent opponent, “Why hasn’t he fixed X? If elected, I will fix X!”
Once elected, of course, the problems with fixing X become apparent. I choose to believe that Obama genuinely planned to close the facility, and is only now realizing the pitfalls surrounding that plan.
So… he didn’t lie, but the truth changed.
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### Author:  [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/12 "2010-06-29T16:59:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> Yes, the general reaction to this subject now on the left seems to be a harmony of embarrassed throat-clearing.
Anyone who’s interested in something beyond throat-clearing may wish to check out the columns of [Salon.com](http://Salon.com)’s Glenn Greenwald, who’s written [on this topic](http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/06/26/guantanamo/index.html) and has also addressed many other failures of the Obama administration to live up to its campaign promises.
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### Author:  [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/13 "2010-06-29T17:00:08Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#):
>
> Doesn’t our lease with Cuba run out some time in the 2030s?
According to wiki:
> **[Guantanamo Bay Naval Base](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gitmo)**
>
> Guantanamo Bay Naval Base (Spanish: Base Naval de la Bahía de Guantánamo), officially known as Naval Station Guantanamo Bay or NSGB, (also called GTMO, pronounced Gitmo /ˈɡɪtmoʊ/ GIT-moh as jargon by the U.S. military) is a United States military base located on 45 square miles (117 km2) of land and water on the shore of Guantánamo Bay at the southeastern end of Cuba. It has been leased from Cuba to the U.S., without expiry, since 1903 as a coaling station and naval base. It is the oldes Since...
> [@wiki](#):
>
> A 1934 treaty reaffirming the lease granted Cuba and her trading partners free access through the bay, modified the lease payment from $2,000 in U.S. gold coins per year, to the 1934 equivalent value of $4,085 in U.S. dollars, and made the lease permanent unless both governments agreed to break it or the U.S. abandoned the base property.
> [@wiki](#):
>
> After coming to power in 1959, Cuban President Fidel Castro refused to cash all but the very first rent check in protest. But the United States argues that its cashing signifies Havana’s ratification of the lease—and that ratification by the new government renders any questions about violations of sovereignty and illegal military occupation moot.
I guess one of the legal sticking points is whether the post-revolutionary government can be legally obligated to honor treaties it doesn’t want, ones that a previous government signed.
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### Author:  [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/14 "2010-06-29T17:08:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> So… he didn’t lie, but the truth changed.
No, it didn’t.
And anyway, this doesn’t excuse him nor the rest of the left who were bitching non-stop about Gitmo when Bush was President. Now that their guy is in they’re all but silent on the issue and their hypocrisy makes me want to puke.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/15 "2010-06-29T17:15:45Z")
I think part of the problem is that Obama has realized that if he tries the GITMO detainees in civilian courts, he probably doesn’t have enough admissible evidence to convict. Apparently he considers a “not guilty” verdict unacceptable. Likewise, just releasing the detainees is politically unacceptable. So he says nothing, and they sit there. I suspect they are going to sit there until they die, or possibly until a lame duck POTUS bites the bullet and releases them once he has nothing else to lose in the political arena.
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### Author:  [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/16 "2010-06-29T17:18:22Z")
> [@ralph124c](#):
>
> \25 ones released to Saudi Arabia are now back in Al Queda
Wow, Saudi Arabia signed them up with an organization that probably doesn’t really exist, and whose #1 goal if it even is real is to destroy Saudi Arabia? And not one but twenty-five members of the secret terrorist legion of doom decided to drop a friendly note to the US government announcing exactly where their post-graduation careers took them? That’s surely plausible and a great reason for you to abandon your status as a human being to support torture!
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/17 "2010-06-29T17:22:10Z")
> [@pkbites](#):
>
> No, it didn’t.
>
> And anyway, this doesn’t excuse him nor the rest of the left who were bitching non-stop about Gitmo when Bush was President. Now that their guy is in they’re all but silent on the issue and their hypocrisy makes me want to puke.
Well, there’s two things to keep in mind:
1. They aren’t all silent on the issue.
2. Congress isn’t allowing Obama to close Gitmo, so his hands are tied, to an extent.
Now, one might ask, why did he promise to close it since he knew he had to go through Congress to do so? Simple answer is that all presidential candidates make promises that assumes they will have Congress on their side. Doesn’t excuse the behavior, but it does explain it-- they all do it, because they feel they have to get elected.
Undoing the legacy of the Bush administration isn’t quite as simple as making a presidential declaration.
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### Author:  [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/18 "2010-06-29T17:28:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> 1. They aren’t all silent on the issue.
>
> 2. Congress isn’t allowing Obama to close Gitmo, so his hands are tied, to an extent.
Most are. And I see no movement on the part of the left to pressure Congress (run by the Democrats) to allow Obama to close it.
Why? Because Bush isn’t President, that’s why.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/19 "2010-06-29T17:35:05Z")
> [@pkbites](#):
>
> Most are. z
Possibly, but I don’t think we could prove so either way. Unless you want to research every writer on “the left” and get back to us on that…
> [@](#):
>
> And I see no movement on the part of the left to pressure Congress (run by the Democrats) to allow Obama to close it.
I agree that it doesn’t appear to be as big an issue these days.
> [@](#):
>
> Why? Because Bush isn’t President, that’s why.
I’m sure that’s part of it.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gitmo-will-never-be-shut-down-now/544905/20 "2010-06-29T17:37:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> Yes, the general reaction to this subject now on the left seems to be a harmony of embarrassed throat-clearing.
It’s only “the left” who believes in the Constitution anymore, is it? :dubious:
No, the general reaction still includes outrage and embarrassment that our government is continuing this abuse. Indignation over Obama’s reversal of position is only a secondary part of it. Perhaps it takes a willingness to see more than “liberal hypocrisy” to realize that.
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