# Giulaini Search Warrant Question **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 28, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giulaini-search-warrant-question/940963 "2021-04-28T17:32:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giulaini-search-warrant-question/940963/61 "2021-05-04T17:08:44Z")
@Ann_Hedonia, excellent post. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > There were a few people convicted of lying, the biggest of them probably Michael Flynn. At the time Flynn was indicted for only lying and nothing else and reported to be cooperating with the SC, there was widespread speculation on and off this MB (possibly including you yourself) that the “sweetheart” plea deal was undoubtedly because he was delivering significant incriminating evidence on senior Trump people, e.g. Kushner or Trump himself. Turned out to not be true. There is a vast gulf between ‘not true’ and ‘unproved.’ Your assertions above allow you to overlook the significant amount of effort – much of it almost certainly criminal – expended by Trump and his cabal to prevent Mueller and Congress from looking for, much less obtaining, the evidence that may well have proved the criminality of Trump, Kushner and others. Giuliani’s actions are certainly part of that in the 2020 election. It’s only now that investigators are belatedly able to pursue what was hidden from scrutiny for the duration of Trump’s term. From Rod Rosenstein’s restrictions on what Mueller and his team could investigate (nothing of Trump’s personal financial dealings) and charge (Mueller’s team were not allowed to overstep the DOJ OLC memo that a sitting president cannot not be indicted), to the Trump team’s failure to comply with lawful subpoenas for both persons and documents, all reasonable investigations were stymied at every turn. I’m glad our current AG is not turning away from pursuing these long overdue investigations. You know another thing that was recently confirmed by our intelligence agencies with a declassified report? That the Trump campaign did _in fact_ actively collude with Russia to swing the 2016 election. I pointed this out to you in another thread, where you claimed it was “old news.” Again the not-so-subtle framing of something as “old news,” when in truth, you argued vociferously in the moment that it was untrue. It wasn’t. It was simply unproved at the time. It’s proved now, though. Something to think about. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giulaini-search-warrant-question/940963/62 "2021-05-04T17:17:13Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Again the not-so-subtle framing of something as “old news,” when in truth, you argued vociferously in the moment that it was untrue. This is a false statement. Please try to be careful to stick to the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giulaini-search-warrant-question/940963/63 "2021-05-04T17:39:34Z")
> [@Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/214): > > That’s the more limited CT. The real CT goes far beyond that. The real CT is that all 63 million people who voted for Trump were all being blackmailed by Russia (via hacks of gmail, yahoo, and all other hacks of anyone by anyone over the last 10 years). It’s the only rational explanation for his victory … > [@Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/225): > > The thing is that there’s zero reason to think it had anything to do with Russia. It’s not like it looks Russia-related and the guy being raided is saying “Nope! Nothing to do with Russia here! …”, as you suggest. The only people bringing up Russia are in this thread. (The guy being raided is probably not a poster to this MB :)). Even aside from that, I don’t know that the guy would have much incentive to attribute the raid to one cause versus another. Especially as the truth will come out anyw… > [@Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/255): > > That’s the problem with these types of allegations. If you’re treating a business deal involving a “onetime partner” as a Trump contact with the Russians, then there’s no limit. Trump must have had hundreds of partners in his various business deals over the years, and each of these “onetime partners” has any number of other business ventures. It’s inevitable that you can find this type of link to Russian banks (or German, British, French etc. banks). This is all nothing. But hey, do you know … > [@Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/602): > > Possibilities include 1) he was unaware of it, and 2) that he didn’t consider a Russian lawyer whose clients included a state-owned business to be a Russian government official. Or 3) that he lied about it. But the first 2 are in play as well. Assuming that they’re lying about it, it’s not hard to understand either. They are being hounded about every contact with any sort of Russian person, and think they’re being persecuted unfairly. Denying things that are likely to come out anyway is not th… > [@Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/758): > > Ah, the old “we’re just defending ourselves against those guys” line … [Our guy] trying to uncover [their guy’s] dealings with Russia = good. [Their guy] trying to uncover [our guy’s] dealings with Russia = bad. Works for True Believers. Not for me. > [@Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians, according to US officials](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trump-associates-may-have-coordinated-with-russians-according-to-us-officials/782799/767): > > No. I’m asserting that - based on the Politico article - there’s nothing to indicate that DNC was merely trying to discover Trump’s efforts to collude with the Russians to win the election. If you’ve seen anything there which indicates otherwise, let me know what that might be. [After the focus of Russian election tampering came to the forefront, it’s easy to conflate any concern about Russian ties with election collusion, but that was not the case at the time the DNC was digging for stuff on… I can’t imagine how I got the impression you were arguing vociferously in the moment that collusion was untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giulaini-search-warrant-question/940963/64 "2021-05-04T17:46:16Z")
Do you think national security is meaningless? Back in 2016, individuals allied with the Russian government tricked the President’s son into participating in an incriminating e-mail chain, in which he agreed to receive political disinformation from Russian agents with the intent of pushing it out into the public sphere. It was probably icing on the cake that other parties were involved, and the fact that the meeting actually took place was a big frosting rosette. The Republican Party is that there was nothing wrong with this because they never received the disinformation and the Russian agent wasn’t a direct employee of the Russian government, just a lawyer that did a lot of work with them. Do you agree? Do you know how adversarial interests compromise American citizens? For a year or so, the Russian government had this email chain where the President’s son agreed to meet with a Russian agent in their possession. This information was not public knowledge and had not yet been discovered by law enforcement. That’s all they need. They don’t need to make overt threats. They have something that will damage you. They know they have the goods on you. You know they have the goods on you. No one else knows they have the goods on you. This may cause you to modify your behavior without any threats or further action. You’re compromised. If your daddy is President, you have become a national security risk. Too bad terminal stupidity isn’t a crime, I’m still gobsmacked at how freaking _stupid_ this incident was, how easy it was for the Russians to compromise Qusay and other Trump cronies. A smart dishonest person would’ve responded to that email with righteous indignation, then asked one of their operatives to contact the guy discreetly. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giulaini-search-warrant-question/940963/65 "2021-05-04T17:51:56Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I can’t imagine how I got the impression you were arguing vociferously in the moment that collusion was untrue. I stand by all those posts. None have anything to do with your false claim. What I recently suggested was “old news” was the notion that Manafort offered to provide Deripaska with internal Trump polling data and the like. This was widely reported years ago and discussed on this MB at the time. It is also not anything that I ever vociferously denied. In short, there is nothing that I ever vociferously argued against and am now dismissing as old news. Please stick to the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giulaini-search-warrant-question/940963/66 "2021-05-04T17:59:32Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What I recently suggested was “old news” was the notion that Manafort offered to provide Deripaska with internal Trump polling data and the like. This was widely reported years ago and discussed on this MB at the time. It is also not anything that I ever vociferously denied. This _was_ the collusion. Did you miss that? It occurred to me belatedly after I posted above that I may have violated a forum rule by pulling your posts from another forum into this one. I have reported my own post and asked the mods to remedy the situation if it is in fact a rules violation. But I do think your posts speak for themselves with respect to what you are arguing, and you’ll receive no apology from me for it. I also won’t engage in a further hijack of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giulaini-search-warrant-question/940963/67 "2021-05-04T18:20:45Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > This _was_ the collusion. Did you miss that? Whether or not it was collusion is beyond the scope of your claim here. Again, what was reported in that thread was that Manafort offered Trump polling data to Deripaska. This was old news, as it had been widely discussed years ago. It is not something that I ever vociferously denied. Your claim in this thread is blatantly false. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > you’ll receive no apology from me for it. Personally I think it would behoove you to be more careful to stick to the truth when posting to this MB, especially when making claims about other posters. But no one can force you. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giulaini-search-warrant-question/940963/68 "2021-05-04T18:39:44Z")
**Modnote** : You are accusing another poster of lying with this post. Please do not repeat. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Personally I think it would behoove you to be more careful to stick to the truth when posting to this MB, especially when making claims about other posters. But no one can force you. Also, please join **Aspenglow** in dropping this back and forth with each other. It is becoming a distraction to the thread. _This is just a guidance, not a warning. Nothing on your permanent record._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/giulaini-search-warrant-question/940963.md?page=3)