# Give colleges eminent domain **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 21, 2016, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954 "2016-06-21T13:07:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ReticulatingSplines](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@ReticulatingSplines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReticulatingSplines)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/41 "2016-06-21T20:41:58Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The same fallacy shows up elsewhere. Student loans, for example. In most cases, people who want a loan need to have collateral, must have a credit check run, there’s a limit on how much money will be loaned, etc… With federal student loans, on the other hand, the federal government will loan up to whatever tuition the university is asking for, doesn’t ask for collateral, doesn’t care whether the student is likely to repay or not. What’s up with that? Why on earth do we gives universities and students these privileges that would obviously look insane if we took the same approach to cars or houses? Because federal student loans are nondischargeable. It’s not comparable to an auto loan or mortgage at all, and certainly not some unsecured free ride. And from a policy perspective, would it really be that great to underwrite student loans like other consumer loans? How would a low-income student ever qualify? And god forbid you choose a major that’s not engineering… ETA: Forgot to add that “the federal government will loan up to whatever tuition the university is asking for” is also untrue. The aggregate federal loan limit across the entire degree program is $31,000 for a dependent undergrad and $57,500 for an independent undergrad. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/42 "2016-06-21T21:14:05Z")
Walmart occasionally uses eminent domain to get land to build stores on. Why should they get rights that colleges don’t? Education is more important than yet another place to buy the same things you can get everywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/43 "2016-06-21T21:16:18Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Walmart occasionally uses eminent domain to get land to build stores on. Why should they get rights that colleges don’t? Education is more important than yet another place to buy the same things you can get everywhere else. Local government uses eminent domain and then sells/gives the land to Walmart. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/44 "2016-06-21T21:19:19Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Walmart occasionally uses eminent domain to get land to build stores on. Why should they get rights that colleges don’t? Education is more important than yet another place to buy the same things you can get everywhere else. Your argument is nuanced and thoughtful, cutting straight to the heart of the issue, clearly and cogently identifying the important points, and offering measured and reasonable solutions. Wait, no it isn’t. It offers specious claims, makes bad comparisons, and draws false equivalencies. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/45 "2016-06-21T21:36:23Z")
> [@ReticulatingSplines](#): > > Because federal student loans are nondischargeable. It’s not comparable to an auto loan or mortgage at all, and certainly not some unsecured free ride. And from a policy perspective, would it really be that great to underwrite student loans like other consumer loans? How would a low-income student ever qualify? And god forbid you choose a major that’s not engineering… > > ETA: Forgot to add that “the federal government will loan up to whatever tuition the university is asking for” is also untrue. The aggregate federal loan limit across the entire degree program is $31,000 for a dependent undergrad and $57,500 for an independent undergrad. I did not know that last point; thank you for informing me. But the main point is this. The purpose of student loans is to make an education affordable to everyone. But the programs are poorly designed and thus are having the opposite effect. Before Stafford Loans were created 50 years ago, there were many good, affordable options for higher ed, even for the poor. Schools were good at keeping costs reasonable. Of course at the time, living on campus was a bit more frugal than it is today. But once the federal government steps in with subsidized loans, then the schools don’t have any motivation to keep costs down. If they raise prices, the government is there with more money, so students can still afford to attend. [Prices are soaring](http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/what-s-behind-america-s-soaring-college-costs/360462/), as everyone knows, and even [government research](https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/staff_reports/sr733.pdf) confirms the obvious: more loans lead to higher costs. Instead university administrations compete to spend on more and more luxuries for students as well as hiring more administrators who don’t really do much of anything. We have more students than ever entering college, but poor students who need loan money to cover almost everything leave with large debts, and maybe a diploma but maybe not. So the net effect has been bad for poor students. A smart student loan program would focus on students who actually need aid and are planning to spend the money on something useful. You mentioned engineering. [Engineers are well paid](http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2015/07/02/the-college-majors-with-the-highest-starting-salaries/#60c0944a7130). The loan program should, at least, try to nudge students towards high-paying majors and away from English Lit and Sociology. ---
**Author:** ![ReticulatingSplines](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@ReticulatingSplines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReticulatingSplines)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/46 "2016-06-22T00:31:52Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > But once the federal government steps in with subsidized loans, then the schools don’t have any motivation to keep costs down. If they raise prices, the government is there with more money, so students can still afford to attend. [Prices are soaring](http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/what-s-behind-america-s-soaring-college-costs/360462/), as everyone knows, and even [government research](https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/staff_reports/sr733.pdf) confirms the obvious: more loans lead to higher costs. Instead university administrations compete to spend on more and more luxuries for students as well as hiring more administrators who don’t really do much of anything. We have more students than ever entering college, but poor students who need loan money to cover almost everything leave with large debts, and maybe a diploma but maybe not. So the net effect has been bad for poor students. Ah, the Bennett Hypothesis. Has historically been a controversial idea, but the evidence does seem to be trending in that direction lately. It’s definitely not a perfect program. > [@](#): > > A smart student loan program would focus on students who actually need aid and are planning to spend the money on something useful. You mentioned engineering. [Engineers are well paid](http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2015/07/02/the-college-majors-with-the-highest-starting-salaries/#60c0944a7130). The loan program should, at least, try to nudge students towards high-paying majors and away from English Lit and Sociology. Should it, though? I think it’s good for society that we still encourage less remunerative pursuits, even if it costs society some extra money. But you are correct from a pure underwriting perspective. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/47 "2016-06-22T00:43:11Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > While we’re at it, we could grant schools the status of “Free Imperial Cities”, allowing them the right of coinage, taxation, and raising armies. We could reestablish the Aulic Council and forego university sporting teams with all of their perfidy with armed service, engaging in periodic internecine warfare in order to ensure that only the strongest survive to graduation, giving them the choice of sorority princesses as their reward. “Come back with your shield, or on it,” shall be the mantra, returning us to an earlier, more enlightened state of feudualism and chivalry, ensuring that future business and political leaders have an intimate understanding of the effects of balkanization and why you should never conduct a field campaign in Asia in the winter. > > Caltech, of course, will slaughter the lot of them with bioengineered toxins and neutron-enhanced microfusion devices. “Destroy, erase, improve.” > > Stranger **Stranger On A Train** for [del]President[/del] Emperor! _Ave Alienus In Hamaxosticho!_ ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/48 "2016-06-22T00:43:55Z")
> [@ReticulatingSplines](#): > > Should it, though? I think it’s good for society that we still encourage less remunerative pursuits, even if it costs society some extra money. But you are correct from a pure underwriting perspective. I notice that he’s apparently only willing to take his economic analysis so far. I wonder, for example, if he would be supportive of a differential pricing scheme, whereby degrees that lead to higher incomes also attract higher tuition fees? After all, in many cases those degrees are more competitive in terms of entry, and we already have something like that for professional graduate degrees like law and medicine and business. Why not extend it to engineering and computer science, for example? Australia’s university system, which is essentially a national system run by the government, has a three-band cost system. It costs just over $A6,000 (about $US4,500 at current exchange rates) per year for a humanities or education degree, almost $A9,000 per year for an engineering, mathematics or other science degree, and about $10,500 per year for economics, accounting, law, medicine, and a few others (law and medicine are generally undergraduate degrees in Australia). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/49 "2016-06-22T01:20:11Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > State run colleges and universities are agencies of the state, which already has eminent domain. The college itself doesn’t need this level of authority. It’s like giving a meter maid the authority to do undercover investigations. > [@Kobal2](#): > > I smell a sitcom ! Or the sequel to _Zootopia_… ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/50 "2016-06-22T05:12:02Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Yeah, screw those pesky private property owners. :smack: Or just make all those displaced home owners and apartment tenants live in the campus office lobbies and empty (by night) classrooms or the gym; and put them to work cooking in the dorm cafeterias or in the dorm laundries. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/51 "2016-06-22T05:35:32Z")
[Already being done.](http://abc7chicago.com/news/neiu-using-eminent-domain-to-force-neighbors-out/249264/) Well, they took the land. They aren’t commandeering existing apartments and giving them to students. > [@](#): > > Northeastern Illinois University has taken legal action to force neighboring residents and businesses to move as part of a plan to expand the campus. > > The university is using eminent domain to make room in the community for new dorms on properties adjacent to the campus. But I’m sure housing will be cheap and plentiful for students now. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/52 "2016-06-22T17:54:09Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > CalTech vs MIT… > > I think the smart money’s on CalTech. They’ve got the lunatics at JPL to draw on. My money is on the service academies with their killer :eek: alumni ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/53 "2016-06-30T22:07:54Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I smell a sitcom ! _Summons Going to Jail!_ ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954/54 "2016-06-30T23:10:04Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Which reminds me, one of these kids told me was forced out of the dorm over Christmas break. He could pay an extra $800 to stay, _even though he had the room through the following semester and was allowed to leave his stuff in it._ Thats how it works at UCLA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-colleges-eminent-domain/757954.md?page=2)