# Give me my car!!!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 19, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263 "2006-09-19T03:08:56Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ethanwinfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethanwinfield)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/1 "2006-09-19T03:08:56Z")
About four years ago, I bought a new car. I had military credit union financing going in, but the check hadn’t arrived yet. The dealer said he had to run my credit and have me fill out a financing contract, in case my funding fell through, they “needed a back-up plan.” I told him that I, too, needed a back-up plan and to write on the contract that if my funding falls through, I return the car. He wrote it into the contract.
My funding didn’t fall through. They funded their loan anyway. For several months my credit showed two car loans for the same car! It took months of phone calls, credit checks to see if it had been removed, and one lawsuit before it was all settled. So what did I learn? I will NEVER let another car dealer run my credit.
I bought a car on Saturday. This time I had my military credit union check with me. It was just a matter of filling it in. I made it clear in no uncertain terms, they would not be running my credit and I would not finance through them. The manager says that’s fine as long as they can hold the car until the check clears, “It could take up to ten days.” I know my bank, and the funds will post within a few days, so I figure Wednesday at the latest.
I got a call this afternoon. “We’re going to hold your car for the full ten days.” Huh? No, you’re not. I never agreed to allow anyone to hold it longer than it would take to actually fund the check I wrote them. If my bank took a full ten days, that would be okay with me because I wouldn’t be paying the interest on the loan yet.
I started to look over my paperwork again. I thought I had signed a bill of sale rather than a contract for financing. I started to read in deeper detail. It was basically a financing agreement. I agreed to make 1 payment of [total amount]. I agreed that if I stopped making payments, they could repose the car. I read further…
> [@](#):
>
> Seller agrees to deliver the vehicle to you on the date this contract is signed by Seller and you.
What? Did I read that correctly? They signed a financing agreement agreeing to deliver my car at the time of signing. They can’t hold my car until the 29th. In fact, they should have already delivered the car.
So I went back with my contract. I requested my car. They refused.
Me: On what grounds are you refusing to honor our written contract?
Dealer: Your check hasn’t cleared.
Me: Show me in writing where you or I agreed to that provision?
Dealer: It’s not.
Me: Great, deliver my car.
Dealer: No.
Me: So you are refusing to honor the contract?
Dealer: Yep. How about I just cancel the contract?
Me: Show me where you have the right to cancel.
(He refers me to the previously mentioned provision about delivery of the vehicle and how if they can’t finance me, they can cancel the deal. After reading the provision): That doesn’t apply. If you want to cancel the contract, return my check.
Dealer: It’s already been deposited.
Me: Then deliver my car.
The manager laid down another condition: Without your social security number, we won’t release your car.
Ummm…no. We have a contract. You have no legal right to my social security number as a condition of releasing the car. If you wanted to place all these conditions on the sale, the time to have done so was…well…at the time of the sale. Had you filled out a bill of sale instead of a loan agreement, you could have added all that crap in writing. I was more than willing for you to hold the car until the funds actually cleared, but not 10 business days even if the funds cleared on the 2nd business day.
On Saturday, while we were writing up the paperwork, I called the insurance company to find out about the LoJack discount. If it worked out to pay for itself with decreased premiums, I’d have it installed. It wasn’t going to be worth it, but while on the phone with the insurance company, the new car was added to the policy. So I am insuring a car that is sitting at the dealership because they refuse to release it. I bought the car on the 16th. If they don’t deliver it until the 29th, I will have paid finance charges and insurance premiums for 13 days on a car that I don’t have the use of.
First thing tomorrow, I am calling my bank and then my insurance company.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/2 "2006-09-19T03:24:35Z")
There are all sorts of hazards in taking checks, and it’s not heard of for check scammers to be able to fool banks temporarily. When the bank catches on a few days later the dealership is SOL. Your being emphatic about no credit check being run, and further your refusal to give your SS# is probably ringing all sorts of potential fraud alarm bells with them. While the dealer’s actions are annoying I can understand their caution.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/3 "2006-09-19T03:25:36Z")
“unheard of”
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### Author:  [@ethanwinfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethanwinfield)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/4 "2006-09-19T03:47:08Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> There are all sorts of hazards in taking checks, and it’s not heard of for check scammers to be able to fool banks temporarily. When the bank catches on a few days later the dealership is SOL. Your being emphatic about no credit check being run, and further your refusal to give your SS# is probably ringing all sorts of potential fraud alarm bells with them. While the dealer’s actions are annoying I can understand their caution.
I understand that. I am pissed for three reasons:
1. They told me they would hold my car _until the check cleared_ and then changed it to _for ten days regardless of when it clears_
2. The had me sign a contract that didn’t include any of that in writing. Instead it reads that they will deliver the car the date the contract is signed. If they wanted to protect themselves, they signed the wrong contract.
3. I am accruing finances charges and paying insurance premiums for a car I don’t have.
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### Author:  [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/5 "2006-09-19T15:23:47Z")
> [@ethanwinfield](#):
>
> 1. They told me they would hold my car _until the check cleared_ and then changed it to _for ten days regardless of when it clears_
>
> 2. The had me sign a contract that didn’t include any of that in writing. Instead it reads that they will deliver the car the date the contract is signed. If they wanted to protect themselves, they signed the wrong contract.
>
> 3. I am accruing finances charges and paying insurance premiums for a car I don’t have.
If any one of these things is true, you need to talk to a lawyer. If all three are true, you for sure need to talk to a lawyer.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/6 "2006-09-19T16:04:36Z")
Where do you live?
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/7 "2006-09-19T16:40:47Z")
> [@ethanwinfield](#):
>
> I understand that. I am pissed for three reasons:
>
> 1. The had me sign a contract that didn’t include any of that in writing. Instead it reads that they will deliver the car the date the contract is signed. If they wanted to protect themselves, they signed the wrong contract.
What they “told” you is very much secondary, it’s what the paperwork says that counts, and I’d be willing to bet there’s an out clause for # 2 somwehere in the fine print of the contract.
With all due respect if I was selling a big ticket item, and the purchaser refused to give the SS# along with the check for reference purposes, I’d make sure every "t’ was crossed and every “i” dotted before I delivered the time.
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/8 "2006-09-19T16:48:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Where do you live?
Why, do you want to carpool?
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/9 "2006-09-19T16:54:35Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> With all due respect if I was selling a big ticket item, and the purchaser refused to give the SS# along with the check for reference purposes, I’d make sure every "t’ was crossed and every “i” dotted before I delivered the time.
You should do that anyway. They’re not entitled to the SSN and trying to make fulfilling the contract contingent on having the SSN delivered up is bullshit.
That being said, I’m having some difficulty mustering up a lot of sympathy for the OP. He knew that he might be without the car for “up to ten days.” Now he’s getting angry because it’s “ten days.” In what universe is “ten days” not a subset of “up to ten days”? If the OP added his new car to his insurance policy before knowing when he would be taking possession of it, then the OP is a ass.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/10 "2006-09-19T17:11:09Z")
> [@Otto](#):
>
> Why, do you want to carpool?
Legal issues depend heavily on where the person lives.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/11 "2006-09-19T17:22:14Z")
> [@ethanwinfield](#):
>
> I understand that. I am pissed for three reasons:
>
> 1. They told me they would hold my car until the check cleared and then changed it to for ten days regardless of when it clears.
Did you get what they **told** you in writing? Oh, I see that you don’t appear to have, because…
> [@ethanwinfield](#):
>
> 1. The had me sign a contract that didn’t include any of that in writing. Instead it reads that they will deliver the car the date the contract is signed. If they wanted to protect themselves, they signed the wrong contract.
Seems if you’d wanted to protect yourself, you’d have read what you were signing. In the end, to see who was best protected, ask yourself this question: Who has the car right now?
> [@ethanwinfield](#):
>
> 1. I am accruing finances charges and paying insurance premiums for a car I don’t have.
That bites, dude, it really does, and you have my sympathy. Silver lining: Next time you buy a car, you’ll know to watch out for this pitfall, too.
Meantime, do contact your CU and insurance company, and see if they can accommodate you in a request to shift your timetables to reflect the date you take delivery of the car. Worst they can do is tell you “No.”
Happy motoring. What kind of car, BTW?
p.s. How does someone who’s been in the military sign a contract and assume that what he was told is in it, is actually in it? Did you never walk into a recruiter’s office?
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/12 "2006-09-19T17:43:05Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> p.s. How does someone who’s been in the military sign a contract and assume that what he was told is in it, is actually in it? Did you never walk into a recruiter’s office?
“What do you mean I’m going to Iraq to disarm IEDs?! That’s not what the recruiter said! I’m supposed to be flying fighter jets!”
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/13 "2006-09-19T18:51:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Legal issues depend heavily on where the person lives.
Um…whoosh maybe?
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> Did you get what they told you in writing?
IANAL but I’m not even sure that matters. AFAIK parties to a contract are free to modify the contract terms orally if all parties agree. So even if the sales contract/financing agreement/whatever says “delivery upon payment” if the dealer and the OP both agree that the dealer has up to ten days to deliver the vehicle that’s binding.
Legalistas, feel free to correct me.
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> p.s. How does someone who’s been in the military sign a contract and assume that what he was told is in it, is actually in it? Did you never walk into a recruiter’s office?
[Private Benjamin]
Where are the condos?
[/PB]
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### Author:  [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/14 "2006-09-19T19:31:19Z")
> [@Otto](#):
>
> IANAL but I’m not even sure that matters. AFAIK parties to a contract are free to modify the contract terms orally if all parties agree. So even if the sales contract/financing agreement/whatever says “delivery upon payment” if the dealer and the OP both agree that the dealer has up to ten days to deliver the vehicle that’s binding.
>
> Legalistas, feel free to correct me.
Usually the written agreement trumps the oral part. (i.e. the parol evidence rule). \*I’m willing to bet that there is some language in the contract that says that this agreement is final and complete and that there is no modification except in writing.
Always read a contract before signing so you know what you are getting into. Read it twice. People lie all the time. They may lie about what was agreed to. THe fact that it is in writing and you signed it means that you are stuck.
WIth your financing, couldn’t you have gotten a certified check and once that was done, take it the dealership and pick up the car? We financed our last car through my wife’s credit union and that was the process that we used. Her credit union got us the certified check the next day and we took it to the dealership.
\*I am not your lawyer, you are not my client, I don’t know you, You don’t know me. I am not licensed in your state. See a lawyer for legal advice. I am just making a WAG about your scenario. This post is for entertainment purposes only, I could be a monkey with access to a keyboard. Don’t take legal advice given over the internet.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/15 "2006-09-19T19:43:40Z")
> [@Caffeine.addict](#):
>
> Usually the written agreement trumps the oral part. (i.e. the parol evidence rule).
>
> \*I am not your lawyer, you are not my client, I don’t know you, You don’t know me. I am not licensed in your state. See a lawyer for legal advice. I am just making a WAG about your scenario. This post is for entertainment purposes only, I could be a monkey with access to a keyboard. Don’t take legal advice given over the internet.
This thread was worth reading just for that!
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### Author:  [@FormerMarineGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FormerMarineGuy)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/16 "2006-09-19T19:43:49Z")
**ethanwinfield** , are you still in the military? If so, perhaps you should go to base legal, where you get free legal assistance? I have used them once and they have been a big help.
Now, what kind of dealer is this (family owned or a stockholder company)?
There are ways to definitely get your money or your car, no questions asked. Send me an e-mail and I will be more than happy to help you have your car by tomorrow.
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### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/17 "2006-09-19T20:03:06Z")
Could you get the police involved? In another thread it seems like blocking a car in a way that prevents the owner from getting it could be theft.
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### Author:  [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/18 "2006-09-19T20:22:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> Seems if you’d wanted to protect yourself, you’d have read what you were signing. In the end, to see who was best protected, ask yourself this question: Who has the car right now?
Uh, what he signed says he should have the car right now.
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### Author:  [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/19 "2006-09-19T20:39:29Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#):
>
> Uh, what he signed says he should have the car right now.
I could be mistaken, but I think the point is that if ethan had read what he was signing at the time he signed it, he would have insisted on driving the car off the lot right then and there as that’s what the contract gave him the right to do. Or he could have simply not signed the contract as it was presented and insisted on changes.
Not that it’s very helpful to say “what you should’ve done is …” I think ethan is well aware, after the fact, what he should’ve done.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-my-car/373263/20 "2006-09-19T20:45:33Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#):
>
> Uh, what he signed says he should have the car right now.
So it does. The operative word being **should**.
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