# Give me your 9/11 conspiracy theories! And/or their debunking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 20, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041 "2009-05-20T03:24:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/181 "2009-05-24T22:51:58Z")
I forgot to add a common category I.B.a.4. Bush is stupid. \*\*\*\*\* ‘official’ explanation, no? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/182 "2009-05-25T00:18:54Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > So, the Evil Cabal gets the exact same result and their conspiracy is a lot smaller and can’t be compromised by any jackass with a camcorder. > > Again, why make it needlessly complex? That’s just how criminal masterminds think, so this is in fact proof! Next you’re going to ask why villians always expound on thier nefarious scheme to the helpless hero before leaving them to face apparent certain death for them to escape from rather than simply killing them. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/183 "2009-05-25T13:38:17Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I’m not familiar with this story… do you have a link? It’s not a story I’ve read. It just seems like common sense - unless the figure of 19 has some deep significance - that there would have been 5 hijackers on each plane. Who bottled out? Were the mobile phones of the terrorists in the group of 4, making phone calls prior to the flight asking, “Where the fuck is Achmed?”? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/184 "2009-05-25T13:48:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Trivial refinement - only some of the 19 were on planes that crashed into the towers. Others were on the plane that hit the Pentagon and still others crashed their plane near Shanksville. Uhmm, Some more refinement. You might also have missed that it wasn’t the **Taliban** that flew the planes, but some obscure little group under the leadership of some Osama bin Laden. You might have heard of him.. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/185 "2009-05-25T13:50:50Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > It’s not a story I’ve read. It just seems like common sense - unless the figure of 19 has some deep significance - that there would have been 5 hijackers on each plane. Who bottled out? Were the mobile phones of the terrorists in the group of 4, making phone calls prior to the flight asking, “Where the fuck is Achmed?”? Khalid Sheik Mohammed was the alleged architect of the plan; he was not intended to be a participant. There was apparently supposed to be a 20th hijacker, but for whatever reason it didn’t work out. Zacarias Moussaoui has been alleged to be the 20th hijacker, although even he was supposedly a replacement (and there seems to be a question as to whether the allegation is true). As to why they couldn’t get a 20th, the wikipedia on [Moussaoui](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui) suggests that they couldn’t get visas. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/186 "2009-05-25T14:31:43Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Khalid Sheik Mohammed was the alleged architect of the plan; he was not intended to be a participant. There was apparently supposed to be a 20th hijacker, but for whatever reason it didn’t work out. Zacarias Moussaoui has been alleged to be the 20th hijacker, although even he was supposedly a replacement (and there seems to be a question as to whether the allegation is true). > > As to why they couldn’t get a 20th, the wikipedia on [Moussaoui](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zacarias_Moussaoui) suggests that they couldn’t get visas. So, you don’t think KSM would have been able to find anyone sympathetic to their cause among their US support team? How many of KSM and Moussaoui’s US associates were arrested in connection with this? The 9/11 attacks were meant to be well-planned, and if 5 men were deemed necessary for each plane, it seems difficult to imagine why they would have gone a man short on one plane… unless someone dropped out at a very late stage in the game. If it wasn’t KSM or Moussaoui, who was it? How come the FBI don’t have his name? ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/187 "2009-05-25T14:53:24Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > So, you don’t think KSM would have been able to find anyone sympathetic to their cause among their US support team? How many of KSM and Moussaoui’s US associates were arrested in connection with this? > > The 9/11 attacks were meant to be well-planned, and if 5 men were deemed necessary for each plane, it seems difficult to imagine why they would have gone a man short on one plane… unless someone dropped out at a very late stage in the game. If it wasn’t KSM or Moussaoui, who was it? How come the FBI don’t have his name? Not knowing anything about Al-Qaeda’s organization, I have no idea what sort of options they had available to them. Even the best organized plans can go awry; we’re not living in a Dan Brown novel. Clearly they wanted five on each plane, and indeed, the plane that came up short on hijackers was the one that never reached its target. Did you actually read the linked article? There are at least two names given of potential 20th hijackers. Beyond that, it’s quite possible that the FBI either hasn’t seen fit to release the information, or simply doesn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/188 "2009-05-25T15:02:05Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I’m humble enough to admit I’ve got nothing but supposition; you have the hubris to believe you know the real truth. > > When in all likelihood you probably know just what you’ve been told like the vast majority of people. Some say the earth is round, others say it’s flat. You “roundies” sure are hubristical to think that you have the whole truth. I’m humble enough to admit it’s just supposition. I mean let’s face it, you’ve never been in space. So isn’t it a little arrogant to say that you “know” the earth is round, when the only reason you “know” that is because that’s what other people have told you? Let’s teach the controversy and let the children decide! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/189 "2009-05-25T15:05:03Z")
For that matter, al Qaida might have figured that they needed four men to a plane and the fifth was simply backup/insurance, the lack of which did not stop the effort on Flight 63. I’m not sure how this question fits in with any attempt to re-write the history of the WTC/Pentagon attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/190 "2009-05-25T16:19:57Z")
ivan astikov has retreated to the Chewbacca Defense; “If 20 Islamic extremist hijackers didn’t fit, you must acquit.” ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/191 "2009-05-25T16:36:12Z")
Yes, Bin Laden and Al Qaeda would have to be included in the ‘et al’ part of ‘Taliban et al’. To be completely honest with you, I never have known precisely what the links are, who the actors are or what their motives are. I’ve seen people deny Bin Laden’s involvement based on the fact that he isn’t wanted for 911 on his [FBI Most Wanted page](http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm). But the FBI keeps a lot of things close to its vest, no? Kind of what they do best… But we agree- the culprits of the 911 attacks are the Taliban, Osama Bin Laden, and Al Quaeda, working through 19 plane-hijacking terrorists. No? On Moussaoui, his Wiki page at least doesn’t make his role clear: > [@](#): > > According to the Associated Press, three jurors decided Moussaoui had only limited knowledge of the September 11 plot, and three described his role in the attacks as minor, if he had any role at all. > > No evidence directly linking Moussaoui to the 9/11 attacks has yet been released. > > At Moussaoui’s sentencing trial, FBI agent Greg Jones testified that prior to the attacks, he urged his supervisor, Michael Maltbie, “to prevent Zacarias Moussaoui from flying a plane into the World Trade Center.” Maltbie had refused to act on 70 requests from another agent, Harry Samit, to obtain a warrant to search Moussaoui’s computer It isn’t clear if he was involved with 911 or just happened to know the guys who were. Apparently he was working on some kind of terrorist plot- some claim it was a different conspiracy. And he claims to be a member of Al Qaeda. It is suggested that FBI pre-knowledge of the attacks existed, no? Though I must admit, it is a single suspicious guy pre-911, and they didn’t search the computer, so it isn’t necessarily a big ol’ red flag. Do I have this much correct? ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/192 "2009-05-25T20:21:09Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I’m not sure how this question fits in with any attempt to re-write the history of the WTC/Pentagon attacks. You don’t think the FBI’s possible prior knowledge of any of their whereabouts, or their lack of willingness to go after whoever supported this plan(there had to be more than KSM and Moussaoui in the know.) has any bearing on the LIHOP theory? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/193 "2009-05-25T21:34:27Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > But we agree- the culprits of the 911 attacks are the Taliban, Osama Bin Laden, and Al Quaeda, working through 19 plane-hijacking terrorists. No? Latro was ruder than necessary, but he was correct - the Taliban may have hosted and supported Al-Queda and given them a base of operations, but they weren’t participants in September 11 attacks. Of course, my personal opinion is that the Taliban should be massacred with as much cold disdain as should have been delivered on the SS circa 1944. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/194 "2009-05-25T21:59:59Z")
LIHOP has the same problem that all 9/11 CTs have: too many people would have to have known. Surely the tidal wave of unforseeable effects that has swept the country in the last 8 years (ex: if the LIHOPpers did it in order to go to war in Iraq, they couldn’t have expected to fail miserably) would’ve provoked someone to talk by now. Even a suicide note confession. _Something._ With no evidence supporting it, and Occam’s Razor suggesting against it, LIHOP is dead in the water, unless new information comes to light in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/195 "2009-05-26T00:05:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > the Taliban may have hosted and supported Al-Queda and given them a base of operations, but they weren’t participants in September 11 attacks. That’s the picture I get with the ‘true story’- The Taliban provided a base of operations for the terrorist group Al Qaeda, of which Osama bin Laden is the leader/mastermind. Our beef with Afghanistan is in it being a ‘state sponsor of terrorism’ via the Taliban. Is that correct? I’m not trying to be difficult, just thorough. But- based on what are we sure the above is true? Cite? And… What’s LIHOP? ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/196 "2009-05-26T00:20:56Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > And… What’s LIHOP? Letting It Happen On Purpose also the Lubbock International House Of Prayer ([www.lihop.org](http://www.lihop.org)) but I’m pretty sure that they weren’t involved in any of this 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/197 "2009-05-26T00:30:17Z")
For a moment, I thought pancakes were involved. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/198 "2009-05-26T00:49:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > For a moment, I thought pancakes were involved. I don’t think that you’ve been cleared for information on SYRUP. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/199 "2009-05-26T02:01:18Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > You don’t think the FBI’s possible prior knowledge of any of their whereabouts, or their lack of willingness to go after whoever supported this plan(there had to be more than KSM and Moussaoui in the know.) has any bearing on the LIHOP theory? LIHOP is not a theory. It is not even a hypothesis. It is a paranoid delusion. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/200 "2009-05-26T02:23:32Z")
I think Chuck Norris bumped into them and brought them down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041.md?page=11)