# Give me your 9/11 conspiracy theories! And/or their debunking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 20, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041 "2009-05-20T03:24:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/201 "2009-05-26T10:56:58Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > LIHOP is not a theory. It is not even a hypothesis. It is a paranoid delusion. And you know this beyond any doubt, how? At least “twoofers” are using their imagination - very entertainingly, at times, as you “Derbunkers” will bear out by your continued attention to their ridiculous ideas! - whereas your side have the arrogance or naivety to believe you “know” conclusively. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/202 "2009-05-26T12:36:50Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > At least “twoofers” are using their imagination - very entertainingly, at times, as you “Derbunkers” will bear out by your continued attention to their ridiculous ideas! - whereas your side have the arrogance or naivety to believe you “know” conclusively. Hey, if you want to write a novel, go right ahead. What we ask is that you kindly not fictionalize the past and call it fact. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/203 "2009-05-26T14:19:23Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > At least “twoofers” are using their imagination - very entertainingly, at times, as you “Derbunkers” will bear out by your continued attention to their ridiculous ideas! Well, we watch Pauly Shore movies too (or at least we used to). Stupidity is often entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/204 "2009-05-26T18:18:49Z")
[QUOTE=ivan astikov] At least “twoofers” are using their imagination - very entertainingly, at times, as you “Derbunkers” will bear out by your continued attention to their ridiculous ideas! - whereas your side have the arrogance or naivety to believe you “know” conclusively. [/QUOTE] It’s a bit easier to tell an interesting tale when you are making shit up. Unfortunately the ‘Derbunkers’ side is limited by all those boring fact thingies. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/205 "2009-05-27T04:25:29Z")
On KSM: > [@](#): > > In March 2007, after four years in captivity, including six months of detention at Guantanamo Bay, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed — as it was claimed by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal Hearing[8] in Guantanamo Bay — confessed to masterminding the September 11, 2001 attacks, the Richard Reid shoe bombing attempt to blow up an airliner over the Atlantic Ocean, the Bali nightclub bombing in Indonesia, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and various foiled attacks.[9] > > On December 8, 2008, Mohammed and four co-defendants sent a note to the military judge expressing their desire to confess and plead guilty. This dude sure confessed to a lot of things. Elsewhere in the article it lists the agencies that claim the dude was tortured by waterboarding. I submit that maybe this guy was willing to admit to anything to stop the waterboarding. So… who planned 911? This guy? Osama Bin Laden??? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/206 "2009-05-27T05:26:29Z")
Waterboarding can easily cause one to confess to Armageddon. OTOH, KSM’s claims, whether they were all connected or he ws pullin intel victories From Today’s Headlines, and if theyn were they all to succeed, amount to a short-term Armageddon. My money is on KSM grabbing at a Badass Notoriety he didn’t deserve, but wants it desparately. It’s probably ignored by Muslim activists, but even the Soviet Union thought of them as tools tossed aside in the Big Game. in which small nationalistic and idiological groups were turds claimed, for the moment, to pretend they had value. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/207 "2009-05-27T17:25:42Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > You need to remove your blinkers first. > > I’d be interested to know how many “official theory” thinkers have religious beliefs, and how many “twoofers” are atheists? It would seem to me that if you can buy the lie of religion, buying some government bullshit should come naturally. I’m an atheist, myself. I know a few Truthers in real life, and without exception, they’re all some stripe of spiritualist. Usually of the crystals and auras type, as opposed to more mainstream religious organizations. The one guy I know who’s really hard-core into 9/11 conspiracies also believes that plants have feelings, that you can regrow limbs through positive thinking, and that the queen of England is a shape-shifting space lizard. Perhaps not coincidentally, he’s also a former methamphetamine addict. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/208 "2009-05-27T17:34:37Z")
Interestingly, none of the Truther types I know IRL are spiritual (or religious) at all…though a couple of them DO believe in Roswell, so maybe that counts. Most of them are hard core Libertarian types of the Mountain Man variety, if you know what I mean. Almost to a man (or woman) they believe in (key word there) all manner of US Government CT, from the supposed Amero currency conspiracy to weird theories about the US government joining some one world government thingy and the imminent imposition of a totalitarian government upon the US by our own government. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/209 "2009-05-28T05:07:21Z")
Unless you believe 911 was all just a big accident, part of what you believe is a CT. I still don’t think I’m a nut. If what I’ve been calling ‘the official story’ is truly ‘a matter of fact’, why not just link me to the proof? It would categorically debunk all mutually exclusive CT’s, as I expressed my desire to do in the op. I get it that it is believed that Osama Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, and the Taliban were the culprits of 911. Humor me. How do we _know_ it is true? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/210 "2009-05-28T07:23:59Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Unless you believe 911 was all just a big accident, part of what you believe is a CT. Utter nonsense. Knowing that conspiracies occur doesn’t make you a believer in Conspiracy Theories as the term is understood. 9/11 was a conspiracy, just not the kind you want it to be. It wasn’t caused by a conspiracy of a shadow government in the US, or the Illuminati, the NWO, the Rothchilds, the English monarchy, or lizard-like aliens. Or, well, I’ve got an open mind if you’ve got actual proof to support any of that. > [@](#): > > I still don’t think I’m a nut. If what I’ve been calling ‘the official story’ is truly ‘a matter of fact’, why not just link me to the proof? It would categorically debunk all mutually exclusive CT’s, as I expressed my desire to do in the op. Sorry, it’s on you. You’ve got the belief that “the official story” is BS, so prove it. > [@](#): > > I get it that it is believed that Osama Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, and the Taliban were the culprits of 911. Humor me. How do we _know_ it is true? How do we _know_ that reality isn’t controlled by six fingered left-handed elves on Mars? I mean, prove me wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/211 "2009-05-28T14:00:59Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Utter nonsense. Knowing that conspiracies occur doesn’t make you a believer in Conspiracy Theories as the term is understood. 9/11 was a conspiracy, just not the kind you want it to be. It wasn’t caused by a conspiracy of a shadow government in the US, or the Illuminati, the NWO, the Rothchilds, the English monarchy, or lizard-like aliens. Or, well, I’ve got an open mind if you’ve got actual proof to support any of that. I can accept your objection to using the term CT, given its usual meaning. But otherwise, you are reading me completely wrong. > [@](#): > > Sorry, it’s on you. You’ve got the belief that “the official story” is BS, so prove it. We went to war over this. It isn’t on me. If I said the ‘official story is BS’, then quote me. What I have is a set of categories of ‘possible’ (using that term loosely in some cases) explanations. > [@](#): > > How do we _know_ that reality isn’t controlled by six fingered left-handed elves on Mars? I mean, prove me wrong. We didn’t go to war with elves, they aren’t in the national discourse, so who cares. I’m asking a straight question: Show me the proof that Osama Bin Laden, Al Qaeda and the Taliban are responsible for 911. The last two suspects that came up turned out to be poor leads. In other words: cite? A rather common SDMB occurrence, no? Your response is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/212 "2009-05-28T15:22:58Z")
T2BC - you seem really intent on us understanding you, so in order to get a bead on where you’re coming from, do you want to tell us how old you are? Last time I asked sort of indirectly and you shrugged it off. It’s relevant because you seem confused and at times completely in the dark about things that happened very publicly less than 8 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/213 "2009-05-28T15:28:13Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I’m asking a straight question: Show me the proof that Osama Bin Laden, Al Qaeda and the Taliban are responsible for 911. There’s home video of Bin Laden watching news coverage of the attacks and commenting that the results, with the entire towers collapsing, rather than just breaking off at the point of impact, were better than he expected even with his training in engineering. How much more proof do you want? (There are people who say it’s not him in the videos, of course. They are not official Al Qaeda business statements.) He’s made clear statements of responsibility over the years, although his earliest pronouncements after the attacks were guarded in tone. To my knowledge, nobody accused the Taliban of active participation in the plotting of the attacks. They allowed AQ to stay within their borders and train for years in exchange for money, which is more than enough responsibility on its own, but not quite the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/214 "2009-05-28T15:52:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There’s home video of Bin Laden watching news coverage of the attacks and commenting that the results, with the entire towers collapsing, rather than just breaking off at the point of impact, were better than he expected even with his training in engineering. How much more proof do you want? (There are people who say it’s not him in the videos, of course. Ahh, the people who claim it’s not really him. Started by Dylan Avery who claimed it wasn’t him because he was wearing jewelry and Muslims don’t wear jewelry. Of course, to make this look convincing, Dylan deliberately cropped ObL’s jewelry out of all the other shots he showed of him. Now there’s a guy with _integrity._ He’s only concerned with the _truth!_ ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/215 "2009-05-28T16:45:51Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Ahh, the people who claim it’s not really him. Started by Dylan Avery who claimed it wasn’t him because he was wearing jewelry and Muslims don’t wear jewelry. Well, there was a little more than just that. The video in question had been squashed vertically to make room for subtitles at the bottom, so bin Laden’s face looked wider. If you took the video image and stretched it back out vertically to full screen height, it looked just like him. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/216 "2009-05-28T16:53:14Z")
Yeah, and IIRC it was darkened, too (?), but those could’ve been honest mistakes. The jewelry was very deliberately cropped out of shots that didn’t support the “ObL doesn’t wear jewelry” nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/217 "2009-05-28T19:03:37Z")
Osama is a Saudi. 18 of the hijackers were Saudis. We attacked Iraq. The rich Saudis supported Osama. Yet we attacked Iraq. Something wrong there. There were training facilities in Afghanistan, so we were told. You can justify taking them out. But Iraq was a neocon /Bush/Cheney plan for a long time. It had nothing to do with 911. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/218 "2009-05-28T19:20:03Z")
Iraq officially had nothing to do with 9/11. (Yes I know they were unofficially linked and used in the same speeches countless times but a lot of people seem to be holding the revisionist belief that Bush basically said, “we’ll get those damn Saudis for 9/11! To Iraq, boys!”) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/219 "2009-05-28T20:08:56Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Osama is a Saudi. 18 of the hijackers were Saudis. We attacked Iraq. The rich Saudis supported Osama. Yet we attacked Iraq. Something wrong there. There were training facilities in Afghanistan, so we were told. You can justify taking them out. But Iraq was a neocon /Bush/Cheney plan for a long time. It had nothing to do with 911. [/QUOTE] Your timeline is a bit off there Gonz (shocking, to be sure). We attacked Iraq after we attacked Afghanistan. And while Bush et al indirectly drew a false connection between 9/11 and Iraq, 9/11 was never the official reason for the invasion…it wasn’t even a peripheral reason for it. The official reason for the invasion of Iraq was that Saddam had WMD and was continuing to produce them, and so was a regional threat. Additionally, Saddam and the Iraqi’s were sitting on top of something like a fifth of the worlds oil reserves…and he was using the vast amount of wealth that represented (through the Oil for Food program) to (theoretically) rebuild his military. It was a lot of hogwash, in retrospect…but it had nothing to do with 9/11. Nor was it part of some vast conspiracy by Bush et al to stage the WTC/Pentagon attacks in order to allow the US to invade Iraq…Iraq was simply an example of Bush and his merry men taking advantage of a political window of opportunity. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041/220 "2009-05-28T20:21:39Z")
All facts, logic, and evidence suggest that Bush would’ve invaded Iraq even if 9/11 never happened, so the most popular motive for the 9/11 CTs is pretty dumb. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-9-11-conspiracy-theories-and-or-their-debunking/497041.md?page=12)