This is trival to debunk. There is zero chance of people getting away with something like this. Ask any SEC agent, detecting if someone is insider trading is trivally easy, the hard part is proving they had insider knowledge. It was easy to track down who made those trades and why (the 9/11 commission report did just that):
Ever seen a building rigged for demolition? They cut away supports and concrete columns and much of the buildings infrastructure and put in literally miles and miles of cable. All of this takes weeks or months to accomplish and lots of people. Don’t you think someone would have noticed some of that stuff?
The controlled demolitions thingy has been debunked numerous times. It doesn’t even make logical sense. Why would you need explosives if you were already going to fly two fully loaded (with fuel) air planes into them? How would you be able to control the explosions with air planes and jet fuel crashing into the building and burning out of control? Why/how would you delay the explosions for minutes or hours after the crash? How would you get hundreds of secret workers into the buildings to put in all the explosives that would be needed WHERE they’d be needed to bring those buildings down?? How would you cover this up so that no one would see all the work that would be needed in order to do such a silly thing?
Like any good CT this one will never die as long as there are true believers, regardless of the mountains of evidence against it (and the mole hill of ‘evidence’ presented in it’s favor).
-XT
Besides the fact that debris flying all over the place is an argument against “controlled” demolition, I don’t know what building on Sixth Ave she’s talking about, but I’m guessing it wasn’t 220 storeys tall - the combined height of the twin towers.
It was introduced on October 23 and signed on October 26. It did, indeed, contain a lot of bad shit, because it was written in response to 9/11, with a lot of fear and overblown rhetoric flying around, and anybody against it was flamed as being pro-terror and anti-American.
Beyond socialism? Do you even know what socialism is?
Additionally the profit on those options after 9/11 wasFour Million Dollars. Even if there was sinister pre-knowledge behind it who would be more likely to kill thousands of people (not to mention risk the discovery of their entire nefarious scheme) to earn the cost of 3 bedroom townhome in New York. A sinister-all-powerful cabal with access to more money than god, or a cash strapped terrorist group (that required the 9/11 hijackers to send BACK their unspent cash before carrying out their sucide attacks)
Fully agreed. That’s where I got confused too. Pilots come from Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan is where we find MOST of al-Queda… let’s invade Iraq! Huh? Then comes the “Weapons Of Mass Destruction” speech. We find none, Bush administration says, “they moved 'em!”
So, the whole thing is full of shit. I really can’t stand people who think that either Bush Administration planned it or looked the other way when they had some type of warning (pilots in training not finishing flight courses, etc.). I usually respond with “Are you telling me only a few people knew about this? You’re assuming that thousands of govt. employees kept quiet.”
The only thing that could sway me to a “already knew about it and let it happen” scenario is if thousands of people left New York City a week before. I certainly don’t remember any story like that.
I DO, however, believe that whether or not the Bushies knew anything, they certainly did use this as an excuse to invade Iraq. For oil? Maybe. Who the hell knows…
I’d say that they certainly used it to invade Iraq…and that oil was a major factor. Oh, not to ‘steal’ it, a la Der Trihs…but because of it’s strategic importance to the US and the fact that we didn’t want a loose cannon like Saddam to control so much of it. We also wanted to demonstrate US military and political might in the region (and didn’t THAT work out well??), as well as basing and staging areas in order to be able to respond to any future dust ups that might occur. At a guess we also wanted to threaten Iran, Syria, Libya, etc etc…and demonstrate to them what could happen to them if they fucked up in a similar way to Iraq and Saddam.
Bush et al essentially used the attack on the US as one big excuse to knock off Saddam and Iraq…and they fucked us all by doing so.
-XT
Of the 9/11 conspiracy theories, the only one that makes even a remote bit of sense to me is that terrorists hijacked four jetliners and crashed them into the Twin Towers, the Pentagon, and a field in Pennsylvania.
Seriously, of all the conspiracy theories, 9/11 is to my mind the absolute least plausible. JFK? Supremely, profoundly unlikely, but I can at least wrap my head around it. Moon landing a hoax? The evidence doesn’t bear it out, but I can sort of see why someone might think that. But the Twin Towers didn’t fall because of the jets loaded with enough fuel for a translantic flight that the entire world saw slam into them on live television? It was something else? I just don’t get it at all.
Agreed! Kudos to you on this. I think it may have just been a personal thing. Didn’t H.W. Bush (daddy) say that the mountainous regions of Iraq are impossible to control… or something to that effect when he was in office? Maybe Dubya just wanted to say, neener neeener to Dad and try to stump his theory.
tomndebb wrote up the most plausible explanation I’ve seen in post #23 of this thread.
“The data from the FRDs from both flight 77 and flight 93 were recovered and the data released. The Cockpit Voice Recorder was recovered from 93 and its transcript was released, not the audio, as in all airplane crashes. However, they did play the audio for family. The other boxes were never found.”
The FBI states, and also reported to the 9-11 Commission, that none of the recording devices from the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were ever recovered.
There has always been some skepticism about this assertion, particularly as two N.Y. City firefighters, Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi, claimed in 2004 that they had found three of the four boxes, and that Federal agents took them and told the two men not to mention having found them. (The FBI denies the whole story.) Moreover, these devices are almost always located after crashes, even if not in useable condition (and the cleanup of the World Trade Center was meticulous, with even tiny bone fragments and bits of human tissue being discovered so that almost all the victims were ultimately identified). As Ted Lopatkiewicz, director of public affairs at the National Transportation Safety Agency which has the job of analyzing the boxes’ data, says, “It’s very unusual not to find a recorder after a crash, although it’s also very unusual to have jets flying into buildings.”
Now there is stronger evidence that something is amiss than simply the alleged non-recovery of all four of those boxes. A source at the National Transportation Safety Board, the agency that has the task of deciphering the date from the black boxes retrieved from crash sites-including those that are being handled as crimes and fall under the jurisdiction of the FBI-says the boxes were in fact recovered and were analyzed by the NTSB.
“Off the record, we had the boxes,” the source says. “You’d have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here.”
The official word from the NTSB is that the WTC crash site black boxes never turned up. “No recorders were recovered from the World Trade Center,” says the NTSB’s Lopatkiewicz. “At least none were delivered to us by the FBI.”
If that were true, NYC_Chic, what would it prove, again?
What a cop out. :rolleyes:
What’s “offensive to the truth and to the victims” is you taking a high and mighty tone like you know any more than I do. Or implying that somehow you can speak for Truth or for the people who jumped out of building to their deaths that day. The official story keeps changing and there are too many parts of it that don’t make sense. I have a theory, you have another. But we should be able to debate both, because its important. What happened afterwards, the Patriot Act, the cameras everywhere, DNA collection, the government monitoring private communications, cops armed to the gills and dressed in future soldier costumes, all the exceptions to the Constitution, the Military Commissions Act and etc. makes 9/11/01 probably the most significant day in America’s history. It’s important.
Based on what he’s posted, I think he does, and so do most people who don’t think the buildings were blown up by a government conspiracy.
Which part?
Which?
Looks to me like we are. Cisco appealed to emotion but at a certain point you have to call this stuff for what it is.
It’s yet another one of the things that doesn’t make any sense. Why is there even a discrepancy about this?
To all the people who are acting like they know what happened: you don’t even know whether or not the black boxes were found. Why don’t you know that?
Bellone is not a credible source. For one, he says that he saw them while driving around workers in an ATV. What, they were lying on top of the rubble pile? Further, Bellone was a fraud. As summarized in Wikipedia:
“A source”?
My guess would be that the FBI is being more secretive than it needs to be. What would you expect? It’s an intelligence agency and they don’t like scrutiny. Not a good thing, but also not proof that the government did it. Not compared to extensive examination of the collapse of the towers and common sense, for starters.
“*There was? Can you provide documentation for this exercise?”
*
BOSTON CENTER: Hi. Boston Center T.M.U. [Traffic Management Unit], we have a problem here. We have a hijacked aircraft headed towards New York, and we need you guys to, we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there, help us out.
POWELL: Is this real-world or exercise?
BOSTON CENTER: No, this is not an exercise, not a test.
PLAY | PAUSE | STOP
Powell’s question—“Is this real-world or exercise?”—is heard nearly verbatim over and over on the tapes as troops funnel onto the ops floor and are briefed about the hijacking. Powell, like almost everyone in the room, first assumes the phone call is from the simulations team on hand to send “inputs”—simulated scenarios—into play for the day’s training exercise.