# Give me your opinion on this grammer question **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 23, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471 "2018-07-23T20:04:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pendgwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@pendgwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pendgwen)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/1 "2018-07-23T20:04:03Z")
For the wording on a diploma I’m helping design. Should it be The faculty and staff of the University of XXX does hereby recognize… The faculty and staff of the University of XXX do hereby recognize… ---
**Author:** ![pendgwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@pendgwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pendgwen)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/2 "2018-07-23T20:07:18Z")
And of course I misspelled “grammar” in the title. At least it wasn’t a poll on spelling. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/3 "2018-07-23T20:35:02Z")
How about: The faculty and staff of the University of XXX hereby recognize . . . Problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/4 "2018-07-23T20:35:37Z")
“facility and staff” = plural. “does” goes with singular, “do” goes with plural. For the record, “facility” and “staff” are actually each plural on their own, so it would be The faculty of the University of XXX do hereby recognize… The staff of the University of XXX do hereby recognize… ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/5 "2018-07-23T20:40:11Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > “facility and staff” = plural. “does” goes with singular, “do” goes with plural. > > For the record, “facility” and “staff” are actually each plural on their own, so it would be > > The faculty of the University of XXX do hereby recognize… > The staff of the University of XXX do hereby recognize… Faculty and staff are singular. Both refer to a a single group of people. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/6 "2018-07-23T20:42:28Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Faculty and staff are singular. Both refer to a a single group of people. Faculty and staff are two groups. Plural. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/7 "2018-07-23T20:48:19Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Faculty and staff are two groups. Plural. Yes, I was thinking of each one individually, like “the staff is…” rather than “the staff are…” ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/8 "2018-07-23T20:49:18Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Faculty and staff are singular. Both refer to a a single group of people. I’ll meet you in the middle - without further clarifying words around them, the terms “faculty” and “staff” can operate as _either_ singular or plural, with an accompanying change in meaning depending on how you use them! And further I’d say that “faculty” is closer to being a singular than ‘staff’ is. Consider the following sentences: 1 The faculty does not condone arriving late. 2 The faculty do not condone arriving late. 3 The staff does not condone arriving late. 4 The staff do not condone arriving late. The singular statements sound like the faculty and staff have released a declaration of intent as an organizational body. The plural sentences sound like it’s describing the individual proclivities of individual members of the groups. And sentence 3 sounds a bit uncomfortable to me because it’s pretty unusual to me to think of the staff operating as a unit. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/9 "2018-07-23T20:50:58Z")
At a university, “faculty and staff” is usually treated as singular. It’s a term for a single entity. I grew up in and around a university. My parents were both professors. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/10 "2018-07-23T20:54:09Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Faculty and staff are singular. Both refer to a a single group of people. With collective nouns, there’s a difference between British and American usage. British English tends to be more flexible, and often treats them as plural, depending on the desired emphasis. American English tends to be stricter about treating them as singular. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/11 "2018-07-23T21:04:16Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I’ll meet you in the middle - without further clarifying words around them, the terms “faculty” and “staff” can operate as _either_ singular or plural, with an accompanying change in meaning depending on how you use them! And further I’d say that “faculty” is closer to being a singular than ‘staff’ is. Consider the following sentences: > > 1 The faculty does not condone arriving late. > 2 The faculty do not condone arriving late. > 3 The staff does not condone arriving late. > 4 The staff do not condone arriving late. Yes–[here is some actual data supporting this](https://s22.postimg.cc/ktayc1d29/faculty.jpg) (for _faculty_), from both academic and popular publications. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/12 "2018-07-23T21:11:53Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > At a university, “faculty and staff” is usually treated as singular. It’s a term for a single entity. I grew up in and around a university. My parents were both professors. Got a cite? A quick google seems to be bringing up more hits for “are” than “is.” ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/13 "2018-07-23T21:31:34Z")
I thing you treat faculty and staff each as a singular group, then to make sure it sounds correct substitute another noun… Bill does have a car Bill and Jane do have a car ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/14 "2018-07-23T21:47:00Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Bill does have a car > Bill and Jane do have a car John and Jane Doe have a car. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/15 "2018-07-24T00:14:18Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > John and Jane Doe have a car. They do? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/16 "2018-07-24T01:47:33Z")
In the case of something like “The faculty have excellent pension plans,” you would absolutely treat it as plural. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/17 "2018-07-24T03:05:36Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > How about: > > The faculty and staff of the University of XXX hereby recognize . . . > > Problem solved. This is the answer. There’s no right way to add it because the “Do/Does” is unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/18 "2018-07-24T05:05:36Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > This is the answer. There’s no right way to add it because the “Do/Does” is unnecessary. No, it just moves the problem over one step, so that it becomes “recognize” or “recognizes.” That said, since “recognize” sounds correct, that is another way of realizing the subject is plural, and thus the correct form of “to do” is “do.” ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/19 "2018-07-24T06:46:14Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > No, it just moves the problem over one step, so that it becomes “recognize” or “recognizes.” Yes. It’s not “problem solved,” but just sweeping the issue under the carpet–evading the real question. > [@BigT](#): > > That said, since “recognize” sounds correct, that is another way of realizing the subject is plural, and thus the correct form of “to do” is “do.” That something “sounds correct” to one person doesn’t mean that it is the only correct form. (And it’s not _to do_ (infinitive), but rather _emphatic do_.) ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471/20 "2018-07-24T11:18:21Z")
They’re both right. One or the other is “more standard” in different parts of the world, though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/give-me-your-opinion-on-this-grammer-question/818471.md?page=2)