# Given the Blair dossier, is there any alternative to attacking ASAP? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2002, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460 "2002-09-24T15:02:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/41 "2002-09-25T07:01:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capacitor \* > \*\*Hey **december** , if Israel isn’t doing anything about the Iraqi problem, even with the freedom of action they currently have, then the urgency for military action may just be at least a little overblown. \*\* Israel has been _begging_ the US to attack Iraq, and the sooner the better. So Israel’s policy supports an Iraq invasion. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/43 "2002-09-25T09:56:49Z")
I don’t know whether or not it’s been on US TV, but Iraq has been regularly inviting British journalists into the facilities that have been mentioned in the dossier, and given them unfettered access to anywhere they want to go. Granted that these people aren’t trained inspectors, but the Iraqis haven’t prevented them from viewing _anything_ they want to see, with TV cameras. Mind you, they might be doing this: > [@](#): > > [They] install[ed] false control room panels and to brick over elevators and hallways that accessed certain areas of the facility. The inspectors were able to report that there was no clear scientific research or civilian nuclear power program justifying such a large reactor - circumstantial evidence of [their] bomb program - but found no evidence of “weapons related activities” such as the existence of a plutonium reprocessing plant. [Click here](http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/index.html) to find out who! ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/44 "2002-09-25T11:20:11Z")
Lets get back to the heart of the OP. > [@](#): > > Given the Blair dossier, is there any alternative to attacking ASAP? Well unfortunaty Blair and No. 10 doesn’t hold that view. [http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=336472](http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=336472) > [@](#): > > Mr Blair said the “whole nature of the regime” would change if Iraq was disarmed and No 10 officials added that \*\*President Saddam could still “save himself” by getting rid of his weapons. \*\* and > [@](#): > > In a statement at the start of the debate, Mr Blair said President Saddam’s removal would be “wonderful”, but stressed: “Our purpose is disarmament. No one wants military conflict.” So Blair seems to favour going down the UN route rather that attacking ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/45 "2002-09-25T11:38:29Z")
That appears to drive a wedge in between the US and the UK view, or do you think we are viewing a clever ‘good cop bad cop’ scenario? ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/46 "2002-09-25T11:41:25Z")
A fairly unsubtle ‘Good cop, bad cop’ at that - Tony Blair wheedling away - “See, my friend here, he’s a leeedle crazy, and we all know you did it, so why not make it easy on yourself?” Either that or it’s a fairly poor carrot-and-stick scenario - the stick being the threat of war, the carrot being the absence of the stick! ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/47 "2002-09-25T11:57:27Z")
Blair has never supported anything other than a UN mandate/resolution – reports may, at times, have conjured a different perspective but if nothing else, Blair is master of the ambiguous, snake-hipped soundbite. He wouldn’t have the same Cabinet unless he did, nor do I think he personally wanted to go any other route. Also, Bush knows Blair can’t do anything (from a domestic POV) without a UN mandate – if Bush wants an ally, he needs the UN. Which suits Blair every which way. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/48 "2002-09-25T12:12:57Z")
Are you trying to imply that Tony is more politically adept than Our Leader? Even, perhaps, that he is more intelligent? You know, **London** , we _could_ just raise you guys rent. Already got your bridge. Word to the wise. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/49 "2002-09-25T12:20:23Z")
Bush wont be happy unless her can get another right wing puppet government supporting him in the ME. Colin Powell stated that they would like to see a regime change, even if Saddam complies with weapon checks. Just keep that Dino juice flowing… ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/50 "2002-09-25T12:24:44Z")
It’s all to do with Dean Martin ? ---
**Author:** ![Nietzsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8dc957/32.png) [@Nietzsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nietzsche)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/51 "2002-09-25T19:23:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > Did the inspectors destroy 1% of Saddam’s WMDs? 50%? 99% Who knows? All we know is that some weapons were destroyed. We don’t know how many were not destroyed. This gentleman can shed some light on this matter. And he seems to think people like yourself are full of the proverbial doo doo. [Article](http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/44/news-wiener.php) ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/52 "2002-09-25T19:36:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nietzsche \* > **This gentleman can shed some light on this matter. And he seems to think people like yourself are full of the proverbial doo doo.** Well I think Scott Ritter is full of the proverbial doo doo. And, most Americans agree with me. Even Scott Ritter agrees with me, based on what he was saying 4 years ago! He has been debated on this board, and he came off badly. The man has no remaining credibility. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/53 "2002-09-25T21:01:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by CyberPundit > _Is there any track record of an occupying military force enforcing regime change and then ridding Iraq of weapons of mass destruction successfully?_ > > Originally posted by december > **It worked in Germany and Japan after WW II.** If history is to be any judge, this whole mess is a lose - lose situation. When you boil it all down, Hussein is a despotic madman who’s proven he’s willing and able to use WMD’s. Iraq can’t be trusted with regards to inspections (unless you want to believe his paid-off mouthpiece, Scott Ritter)_. Is a cite really necessary?_ The UN continues to prove that one-worldism is an idealistic dream. It’s too impotent and too factionalized to accomplish anything. That leaves American boys (and a few NATO forces thrown in for good measure) to once again do the heavy lifting. (Read; bleeding, dying, leaving widows and orphans in their wake)[sub]Either that or you let the Israelis do it and ignite WWIII.[/sub] Here’s the problem with invasion of Iraq: American military forces have never militarily captured a city the size of Baghdad. It’s a large city of over 4 million people. To draw a historical metaphor: At the close of WWII, April 1945, 1.3 Million Russian troops, with TOTAL air and artillery superiority and very little resistance (unless you want to call a Volkssturm of old men, women, and children with shovels resistance) took **300,000** CASULATIES in the capture of Berlin (a city of roughly the same size as Baghdad). I for one, don’t think any crisis, especially one half a world away is worth that much American blood…oil or no oil, national interest or no national interest. Isolationism is sounding more and more to me like a better policy. ---
**Author:** ![Nietzsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8dc957/32.png) [@Nietzsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nietzsche)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/54 "2002-09-25T21:03:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > He has been debated on this board, and he came off badly. The man has no remaining credibility. Lovely use of the ad hominem, **december**. Of all people, you’re the last one who should be claiming others have been throughly debuked on this board. Your reputation, on this board, carries about as much weight as Saddam’s in the international arena. Nonetheless, would you please expand a bit on this point you made… > [@](#): > > And, most Americans agree with me. Even Scott Ritter agrees with me, based on what he was saying 4 years ago! Just exactly _what_ was he saying four years ago that in any way supports what you’re saying today? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/55 "2002-09-25T21:30:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nietzsche \* > \*\*Just exactly _what_ was he saying four years ago that in any way supports what you’re saying today? \*\* Sorry, I do not intend to re-debate the Scott Ritter issue. You’ll have to do your own research on this one. You could try the Straight Dope search engine… ---
**Author:** ![I\_am\_Sparticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@I\_am\_Sparticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_am_Sparticus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2002, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/56 "2002-09-26T06:44:00Z")
Gosh, it’s all just so assumptive. There are endless alternatives to an attack at 7:00 a.m. tomorrow. Let’s assume that the USA is going to attack regardless. (Looks like that is what is going to happen anyway.) How about getting some of the other responsible nations to assist us? Might take more time, but it sure would be easier than conducting a war 10,000 miles away without any local bases to assist. Even in 'Nam we had Thailand, Phillipines, Australia, etc to make logistics a little easier. How about brushing up on our relationship skills first? The Administration’s attitude is that it isn’t worth the bother. Frankly, all the chickenhawks haven’t thought this through, they are too busy trying to get some glory before the elections. How about some intelligence gathering? Like finding out where these command centers and weapons facilities are. Then dropping a bunch of bunker buster bombs on them short of an all out attack. I’m a somewhat liberal partisan, and I think that we should eventually get rid of Hussein, but I think that the current crew are complete bozos who are doing it the wrong way for the wrong reasons. They are alienating the entire world first rather than making the case and gathering allies simply because their FU attitude has cost them all of their credibility in other nations with the exception of the UK, and a lot there too. I suspect this is intentional. The peaceful order that was developed since the Gulf War has cost the arms manufacturers dearly, and it isn’t too difficult to see who those people are: same as the oil interests: Bush I, Cheney, etc. etc. The demand for authorization before the election is transparent on its face. While it looks like it will happen, election fears is not the correct reason. Unemployment, war, recession. Looks like Bush hit the trifecta. As he has said on numerous occasions: it would be a lot easier if he were a dictator. ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2002, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/57 "2002-09-26T17:14:43Z")
Excerpts from a Scott Ritter Interview on FNC from 9/12/2002 > [@](#): > > **Q:** Earlier this week, the International Institute for Strategic Studies issued a report (which states)…that Iraq could assemble a nuclear weapon within months if it obtained radioactive material. Do you believe that? > **RITTER:** Iraq could assemble a nuclear weapon within months if it obtained…fissile material…It’s frightening. > **Q:** Scientists who’ve come out of Iraq…go on to say that Iraq at this point has a stockpile of biological weapons, including anthrax. Do you believe that? > **RITTER:** There’s nothing in that report that substantiates that statement. I have no way of knowing. > **Q:** But they say they have anthrax. They also say that Iraq emerged from the war with Iran with the largest and most advanced chemical weapons capability in the Middle East. Is that true? > **RITTER:** I don’t know, if you compare and contrast with the Israeli chemical capability, maybe not. But…they’ve had (chemical weapons) as of 1990, 1991, yes. We destroyed it. We destroyed most of it. (How much they’ve rebuilt in the last 3 years without inspections) I have no way of knowing…I testified to the U.S. Senate within six months of the inspectors removed from Iraq, Iraq could reconstitute significant aspects of its programs. They could have mustard gas, sarin gas. I don’t know. > **Q:** This study says that they have a force of about a dozen 650 kilometer range missiles. You believe that? > **RITTER:** No. Absolutely not. I ran the ballistic missile effort in Iraq > **Q:** Do you believe that they have the capability to meet with an al Qaeda representative in Damascus, say, or any other capability, and hand over dangerous materials to them? Do you believe Iraq…could do that? > **RITTER:** : If Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and if Iraq wanted to hand it over to an al Qaeda terrorist they have the capability. The Czechs and the FBI say a top Iraqi met with Mohammed Atta in Prague, that I don’t know…I wasn’t there. > **Q:** You’ve been criticized for taking $400,000 from a guy who’s friendly with Saddam Hussein to make a film. Should you have done that? > **RITTER:** : You’re damn right I should have. The film is the most objective, independent analysis of the weapons inspection process. If the American public saw this film, it would answer many of the questions they have about, A, what was accomplished by the inspectors? And B, why inspectors aren’t in Iraq today. I don’t care how it looks. I care about the information. I care about what I know. I am about telling the truth. I am about assiduously adhering to the facts. I made a movie that’s the best movie out there. It’s not an Iraqi movie…it was financed by an American citizen. If you think I made money on this film, think again. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/58 "2011-02-11T04:31:33Z")
Ah hindsight. Such a wonderful thing. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/59 "2011-02-11T04:55:10Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Ah hindsight. Such a wonderful thing. You necroed a nearly 9 year old thread for that? Not that it took hindsight; the war was obviously both stupid and evil from the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460/60 "2011-02-11T05:07:01Z")
We have recently become more tolerant of zombie threads, but I really see no point to bringing this one back to life–particularly for that odd comment. Closed. [/Moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-the-blair-dossier-is-there-any-alternative-to-attacking-asap/129460.md?page=2)