# Given this deal how do things play out from here? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 17, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453 "2013-10-17T01:58:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/21 "2013-10-17T15:38:58Z")
I too, though I don’t have LibDem in my username, would like to give credit where credit is due, and thank Mitch McConnell for doing the right thing here. Never thought I’d ever be thinking anything good about Mitch “Make him a one term president” McConnell but even I can be surprised from time to time it seems. And good on John Boehner for allowing the vote to come to the floor against tea party wishes. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/22 "2013-10-17T15:43:15Z")
They did the right thing in that, unlike a few of the Tea Party representatives, they understood that a default would really be terrible and that they would be to blame if that happened. That doesn’t take a tremendous amount of courage. It just shows how little we’ve come to expect from these people that they’re getting praised for putting a dent in the economy but not totally breaking it. Boehner was atrocious throughout this episode. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/23 "2013-10-17T15:52:24Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > From [Ezra Klein’s Twitter feed](https://twitter.com/ezraklein/status/390842114453827584): That’s not what it says though. The part on page 24, yes. But it continues on page 25 and 26, and seems to give automatic coverage in the debt ceiling for increases unless Congress specifically disallows it. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/24 "2013-10-17T16:11:15Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I too, though I don’t have LibDem in my username, would like to give credit where credit is due, and thank Mitch McConnell for doing the right thing here. > […] > And good on John Boehner for allowing the vote to come to the floor against tea party wishes. Congratulations on doing the bare minimum, guys. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/25 "2013-10-17T19:05:13Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > From [Ezra Klein’s Twitter feed](https://twitter.com/ezraklein/status/390842114453827584): > [@silenus](#): > > That’s not what it says though. The part on page 24, yes. But it continues on page 25 and 26, and seems to give automatic coverage in the debt ceiling for increases unless Congress specifically disallows it. I thought so too, but upon re-reading the bill, Klein is correct. I retract my earlier comment. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/26 "2013-10-17T19:32:05Z")
Where and how? I’m not reading that at all, and I want to know what lines I missed. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/27 "2013-10-17T20:15:42Z")
This is how it’s going to play out: Republicans: we want entitlement cuts Obama: I want tax increases on the rich Republicans: go fuck yourself, give us what we want Obama: ok, how about we just close some loopholes then Republicans: go fuck yourself, give us what we want Obama: Immigration reform? Republicans: go fuck yourself, give us what we want Obama: how about no, does no work for you? Republicans: he won’t negotiate! we are taking the world economy hostage! ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/28 "2013-10-17T21:25:12Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Where and how? I’m not reading that at all, and I want to know what lines I missed. This is from the final version of the bill - H.R. 2775, Section 1002(c): > [@](#): > > (1) IN GENERAL- Section 3101(b) of title 31, United States Code, shall not apply for the period beginning on the date on which the President submits to Congress a certification under subsection (b) and ending on February 7, 2014. > > (2) SPECIAL RULE RELATING TO OBLIGATIONS ISSUED DURING SUSPENSION PERIOD- Effective February 8, 2014, the limitation in section 3101(b) of title 31, United States Code, as increased by section 3101A of such title and section 2 of the No Budget, No Pay Act of 2013 (31 U.S.C. 3101 note), is increased to the extent that– > (A) the face amount of obligations issued under chapter 31 of such title and the face amount of obligations whose principal and interest are guaranteed by the United States Government (except guaranteed obligations held by the Secretary of the Treasury) outstanding on February 8, 2014, exceeds > (B) the face amount of such obligations outstanding on the date of enactment of this Act. > An obligation shall not be taken into account under subparagraph (A) unless the issuance of such obligation was necessary to fund a commitment incurred by the Federal Government that required payment before February 8, 2014. I am interpreting that as, “On February 8, 2014, the debt ceiling is set to the value of the debt on that date.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/29 "2013-10-17T21:38:09Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’ve gained a lot of respect for Mitch McConnell. Because he did the right thing and sat down with Harry Reid and banged out an agreement, he’s going to get primaried from the right and very well could lose. He could lose even if not primaried from the right. Kentucky SOS Alison Lundergan Grimes (D) [is leading him in the polls](http://www.nationalmemo.com/poll-mitch-mcconnell-now-trails-alison-lundergan-grimes-in-kentucky/). (Granted, that’s Public Policy Polling poll, a Dem outfit.) ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/30 "2013-10-17T22:15:42Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > This is how it’s going to play out: > > Republicans: we want entitlement cuts > Obama: I want tax increases on the rich > Republicans: go fuck yourself, give us what we want > Obama: ok, how about we just close some loopholes then > Republicans: go fuck yourself, give us what we want > Obama: Immigration reform? > Republicans: go fuck yourself, give us what we want > Obama: how about no, does no work for you? > Republicans: he won’t negotiate! we are taking the world economy hostage! I think it’s going to be more like: Republicans: we want entitlement cuts Obama: I want tax increases on the rich Republicans: okay, how about fewer entitlement cuts? Obama: What part of “tax increases on the rich” did you not understand? Republicans: how about we cut… Obama: Rich. Tax increases. Line in the sand. Republicans: Rich. NO tax increases. Dealbreaker. I also have this strange feeling that, somewhere along the line, somebody is going to say, “The people voted for ACA when they re-elected Obama, and as not enough young healthy people have applied, the money we need to pay for everybody else isn’t there, so we need to increase taxes on the rich and corporations in order to pay for it; therefore, the people support tax increases.” What the Democrats _should_ do is to make the first move with something along the lines of, “Okay, here’s the deal; you can’t touch ACA, or Medicare, or Social Security (am I leaving something out?), but other than that, what do the Republicans want to cut in lieu of raising taxes?”. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/31 "2013-10-17T22:53:09Z")
Negotiating isn’t just letting the republicans decide what they want to cut, they have to give up something for those cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/32 "2013-10-17T23:00:38Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The Republican Party does not make rational decisions. Predicting that they won’t do something because it would be stupid of them is a losing bet. How many times do we need to see this sort of thing happen before that becomes clear? Agreed. The Tea Party wing of the GOP lives in a fact free bubble. However I think the business class may put pressure on Boehner to be more bipartisan. There are always going to be enough votes to get clean debt ceiling and government funding bills passed between the dems and the republicans (87 GOPers voted in the house for the bill that was passed, and the margin was 58 votes above the minimum needed). In 2013 alone these dysfunctional games cost the US 900k jobs. Supposedly we’ve lost something like 2 million jobs since 2011 because of these games. > **[Washington Bickering Has Killed Nearly 1 Million Jobs](https://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/washington-bickering-killed-nearly-1-million-jobs-215211102.html)** > > It’s just a “partial” government shutdown. Threats of a U.S. government default are overblown. The federal government is too involved in the economy, anyway. These are some of the excuses used to justify repeated standoffs in Washington over federal... ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/33 "2013-10-17T23:37:36Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Where and how? I’m not reading that at all, and I want to know what lines I missed. [Here](http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113hr2775enr/pdf/BILLS-113hr2775enr.pdf) is a PDF of the bill - H. R. 2775. > [@H. R. 2775 page 9-10](#): > > SEC. 1002. (a) SHORT TITLE.—This section may be cited as the ‘‘Default Prevention Act of 2013’’. > (b) CERTIFICATION.—Not later than 3 days after the date of enactment of this Act, the President may submit to Congress a written certification that absent a suspension of the limit under section 3101(b) of title 31, United States Code, the Secretary of the Treasury would be unable to issue debt to meet existing commitments. > > (c) SUSPENSION.— > (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 3101(b) of title 31, United States > Code, shall not apply for the period beginning on the date on which the President submits to Congress a certification under subsection (b) and ending on February 7, 2014. Section 3101(b) is the legislation that is the debt limit. So, 3 days after passage the president can raise the limit by ‘suspending’ 3101(b) but that ability ends on the 7th. The rest of the bill appears to deal with how large the increase can be and how Congress can object. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/34 "2013-10-18T01:33:45Z")
To add to my last post, very similar language about “disapproval” of a debt limit increase appears in the [2011 bill](http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-112publ25/html/PLAW-112publ25.htm) - but only prior to Dec 31, 2011. Search for Sec. 301. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/35 "2013-10-18T01:58:33Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > I think it’s going to be more like: > > Republicans: we want entitlement cuts > Obama: I want tax increases on the rich > Republicans: okay, how about fewer entitlement cuts? > Obama: What part of “tax increases on the rich” did you not understand? > Republicans: how about we cut… > Obama: Rich. Tax increases. Line in the sand. > Republicans: Rich. NO tax increases. Dealbreaker. > > I also have this strange feeling that, somewhere along the line, somebody is going to say, “The people voted for ACA when they re-elected Obama, and as not enough young healthy people have applied, the money we need to pay for everybody else isn’t there, so we need to increase taxes on the rich and corporations in order to pay for it; therefore, the people support tax increases.” > > What the Democrats _should_ do is to make the first move with something along the lines of, “Okay, here’s the deal; you can’t touch ACA, or Medicare, or Social Security (am I leaving something out?), but other than that, what do the Republicans want to cut in lieu of raising taxes?”. Quick question - Is medicare and social security for retirees universal or is it means tested? Social security refers to retirement benefits (i.e a monthly allowance) for the retired right? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/36 "2013-10-18T02:17:42Z")
Social Security is more than just retirement benefits, but those are not means tested. The benefits are very progressive with lower paid workers recovering a greater portion of their contributions than the higher compensated. It has a maximum monthly benefit of about $2600 in current dollars, regardless of how much you pay in. Medicare premiums paid in retirement ($105/month) cost more for those with higher income, so there is some means testing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/37 "2013-10-18T02:34:40Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > What the Democrats _should_ do is to make the first move with something along the lines of, “Okay, here’s the deal; you can’t touch ACA, or Medicare, or Social Security (am I leaving something out?), but other than that, what do the Republicans want to cut in lieu of raising taxes?”. Why should the Democrats do that? Assuming the Democrats don’t want to cut anything, given the already harsh cuts programs have faced over the last few years, why should compromise consist of Democrats getting nothing that they want and Republicans getting part of what they want? Democrats SHOULD engage in a push to educate people about what compromise entails: Republicans who suggest that only cutting a little bit, without increasing taxes, is compromise should be laughed at in public ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/38 "2013-10-18T02:44:31Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > Social Security is more than just retirement benefits, but those are not means tested. The benefits are very progressive with lower paid workers recovering a greater portion of their contributions than the higher compensated. It has a maximum monthly benefit of about $2600 in current dollars, regardless of how much you pay in. > > Medicare premiums paid in retirement ($105/month) cost more for those with higher income, so there is some means testing. When you say “pay in” does that mean that your contributions go into “your” account? And that if you never “pay in” (eg: a SAHM) you never get any payout? I can’t speak for everywhere, but for the places I am familiar with, there are solid moves towards means testing of retirement payouts - I know for New Zealand this was debated 20 years ago, and it was something that made sense to me then (I’m not sure what the current status is, but I still support it) Here in Singapore, we have compulsory retirement contributions for ALL workers, money that goes into YOUR retirement account. Something I also support (the challenge though is that there are no retirement benefits here, and if you never pay in, then you’re SOL) ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/39 "2013-10-18T04:19:12Z")
No separate individual accounts. To qualify for retirement benefits you need to have worked for at least 40 calendar quarters during which you and your employers pay the SS tax. The other social insurance aspects of the SS system have differing requirements. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/40 "2013-10-18T12:59:50Z")
Cancel some of my respect for Mitch McConnell. Turns out he snuck himself a nice little morsel of pork into the bill. I don’t mind that much since the dam will create some nice jobs. Where to go from here? I wish Obama would channel Ross Perot and give an address from behind his desk with visual aids. Show the proportion of the deficit due to the Bush tax cuts. Show how the deficit has gone down over the last few years. Democrats have the disadvantage of making the public argument in that they need to do more than recite bumper stickers. Obama and the Democrats need to make the case to the public for why revenues are needed and why higher taxes won’t lead to job loss, how the “job creator” myth is all bullshit, and they need to make a case for no longer spending as much on the military as the rest of the world combined. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453.md?page=3)