# Given this deal how do things play out from here? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 17, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453 "2013-10-17T01:58:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/41 "2013-10-18T20:47:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Why should the Democrats do that? Assuming the Democrats don’t want to cut anything, given the already harsh cuts programs have faced over the last few years, why should compromise consist of Democrats getting nothing that they want and Republicans getting part of what they want? > > Democrats SHOULD engage in a push to educate people about what compromise entails: Republicans who suggest that only cutting a little bit, without increasing taxes, is compromise should be laughed at in public The Democrats don’t want to cut anything, yet somehow this country still manages to spend too much money. I have seen Obama’s definition of “compromise” (when it came to the Bush tax cuts), which is FAR more laughable than anything I have heard the Republicans claim. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/42 "2013-10-18T23:44:11Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > I have seen Obama’s definition of “compromise” (when it came to the Bush tax cuts), which is FAR more laughable than anything I have heard the Republicans claim. Obama originally wanted the Bush tax cuts to expire for those making \>250k/year. He stepped off that position and renewed the cuts for 2 additional years, after which point he backed up from the 250k mark and backed up to \>450k/year. 40 Senate Republicans and 85 House Republicans voted for the bill. That doesn’t sound like reasonable compromise to you? Are you aware of the margins by which the Bush tax cuts originally passed? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/43 "2013-10-19T02:54:47Z")
So apparently the opening salvo from here is a [“Let’s do immigration!”](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/19/us/politics/democrats-aim-to-restore-immigration-to-agenda.html?hp&_r=0) entreaty. > [@](#): > > Mr. Obama raised the issue in his first comments after lawmakers reached a deal to reopen the government, and on the night the shutdown ended the three top Senate Democrats said they hoped to extend the bipartisan moment that produced the compromise by taking up immigration. > > “Let’s move on,” said the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada. He added that he hoped “the next venture is making sure we do immigration reform.” > > But the possibilities for progress on the issue will be determined in the House of Representatives, where many conservative Republicans are fuming with frustration over their meager gains from the two-week shutdown and turning their ire against Mr. Obama, saying he failed to negotiate with them … The effort to repair the immigration system has attracted support across the political spectrum, including from traditional Republican allies like business, agriculture and evangelical Christians. The Senate passed a sweeping bill in June on a bipartisan vote. But lawmakers on both sides agreed that the window for action on immigration is narrow, most likely limited to the remaining months of this year, before the next fiscal deadlines, or maybe to early next spring. > > Mr. Boehner would like to make progress this year on immigration, a spokesman said Friday. “The speaker remains committed to a step-by-step process to fix our broken immigration system,” said the spokesman, Michael Steel. > > But House Republican leaders are waiting to gauge the intensity of distrust of the White House among fractious conservatives in their caucus. … Republicans who want an immigration bill were encouraged that Mr. Boehner survived the shutdown retaining the support of the conservatives who set it off; they hope the speaker will be emboldened to move on immigration legislation, which is still controversial within his conference. > > Many Democrats say Mr. Boehner could quickly pass a bill similar to the Senate’s if he would allow a vote like the one that ended the shutdown, to pass legislation with both Democratic and Republican votes. House GOP possible responses? Yup. Let’s get this done and rehabilitate our image some. Yeah right. No path to citizenship, no way no how. This blockage we can win! That’s what our base demands. A bit more likely. Entrenching their obstructionist image, frustrating business interests (that wants this done already), and pissing off Hispanics even more. Well played Democrats but a bit cynically. Still if the House flips it can be done after November 2014. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/44 "2013-10-19T03:24:51Z")
Boehner might go for it if he feels his job is safe and that he already did his job of appeasing the teatards. It really would help move on from this last debacle. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/45 "2013-10-19T03:49:20Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > The Democrats don’t want to cut anything, yet somehow this country still manages to spend too much money. Are you saying that with a straight face? Aren’t you aware that the deficit has been reduced (by about half, I think) since Obama took office, and that he’s committed to reducing it further? He’s taking the long game approach instead of suddenly jolting the economy and creating hardship for the country he’s responsible for governing. You, as someone who benefits from a relatively stable American economy, should be thankful for that. For all the right wing rhetoric about reducing gov’t spending, the 24 billion dollar hit that the Republican-induced shutdown inflicted on the economy hurt the effort to reduce the deficit. In fact, any damage that’s been done to the budget under the last two presidents has been inflicted by Republicans, with George W. by far the worst offender. If you think Democrats are the drunken spenders, you should re-evaluate your sources of information. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/46 "2013-10-19T06:31:23Z")
If the Republicans had an ounce of sense, they’d aggressively seek the Grand Bargain. Sure, they’d have to swallow tax increases, but Democrats don’t have the stomach to ask for much. the fact that Democrats are willing to consider entitlement cuts for ANYTHING in return is a big deal and an opportunity that Republicans should jump at. For chained CPI, means testing, and an increase in the retirement age, Republicans would probably only have to give up some loopholes. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/47 "2013-10-19T10:19:25Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > The Democrats don’t want to cut anything, yet somehow this country still manages to spend too much money. > > I have seen Obama’s definition of “compromise” (when it came to the Bush tax cuts), which is FAR more laughable than anything I have heard the Republicans claim. The Bush tax cuts were a horrible idea from the get-go and should have been rescinded in 2003 (at the LATEST) to pay for that damn-fool Iraq adventure. Letting them continue until they expired at all was PLENTY of concession. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/48 "2013-10-19T10:21:31Z")
They should have been abandoned before that, as soon as it was obvious that the surpluses forecast “as far as the eye can see” were not going to actually happen. The party should have heeded John McCain and Alan Greenspan. ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/49 "2013-10-19T14:07:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If the Republicans had an ounce of sense, they’d aggressively seek the Grand Bargain. Sure, they’d have to swallow tax increases, but Democrats don’t have the stomach to ask for much. the fact that Democrats are willing to consider entitlement cuts for ANYTHING in return is a big deal and an opportunity that Republicans should jump at. > > For chained CPI, means testing, and an increase in the retirement age, Republicans would probably only have to give up some loopholes. That’s the problem, the Tea Party wing doesn’t have an ounce of sense and the rest of the party is too afraid of them to do something that’s sensible, especially if it helps Democrats. How things play out from here: The Tea Party will crow that they won this round while the sensible members of the party try to figure out how to save the party. The TP will continue to throw fits and the rest of the party will continue to cower. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/50 "2013-10-19T16:12:11Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > The Democrats don’t want to cut anything, yet somehow this country still manages to spend too much money. The Democrats already acceded to large cuts. If we’re still spending too much money, then it indicates that revenue is now too low. Since we’ve already cut, it’s (past) time to raise revenue. Reagan tried cutting taxes and he was intelligent enough to see that his math was faulty; so he raised taxes. Bush cut taxes and increased spending, decided ('cause he’s the ‘decider’) that he’s better at math than he is, and convinced half the country that two plus two equals seventeen. (Remember that Bush was CEO of Spectrum 7 when it lost money and was absorbed by Harken Energy. He was a director at Harken when it lost money. I think I pointed out before he was elected President that we probably shouldn’t elect someone with his business record to run the country like a business. If I didn’t do it here, I know I did IRL with coworkers and friends.) The Democrats compromised and compromised and compromised, while the Republicans gave up virtually nothing. Now the Republicans are saying ‘Well that’s all in the _past!_ Why won’t you give up anything _now?_’ Te Republicans have to wake up, smell the coffee and bacon, and face reality. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/51 "2013-10-19T18:43:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The party should have heeded John McCain and Alan Greenspan. When was Greenspan cautioning against the Bush tax cuts? I remember him being a cheerleader for irresponsibility and testifying about the dangers of cutting the debt too quickly. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/52 "2013-10-20T04:03:49Z")
We raised revenue. The biggest problem for the budget is health care costs, and there’s a 25% gap between projected outlays and revenues in Social Security once we get past 2035 or so. As for the Tea Party, hopefully they’ve learned from their loss. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/53 "2013-10-20T12:07:16Z")
They don’t even know they lost. ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/54 "2013-10-20T13:27:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As for the Tea Party, hopefully they’ve learned from their loss. Please, they keep claiming they won. The sane folks in the party know the GOP lost, but the Tea Party doesn’t live in our reality ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453/55 "2013-10-21T04:25:29Z")
The problem is that while the shutdown/debt ceiling crisis hurt the GOP they **did** win on funding. With the Tea Party extremists so clearly signalling a balls to the wall showdown the Democrats completely caved on increasing baseline funding in favor of just trying to get a bill passed. The reason the extension only runs until mid January is because that’s all Democrats were willing to go on the current budget path. After that more cuts are scheduled to be phased in and they don’t want to see that happen. So I expect to see more brinkmanship. Extreme rhetoric from House Republicans will provide the cover for the GOP to avoid actual compromise and push through a simple extension with the scheduled cuts. (I’m assuming that rhetoric will also lead the GOP to get over the fact that this round of cuts falls hard on military spending.) January is close to the start of the primary season we can’t expect less posturing than the last time. I don’t expect a shutdown but we will get right to the edge of it before the Democrats cave again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/given-this-deal-how-do-things-play-out-from-here/671453.md?page=2)